Regarding Gigaworld Maps Redux

Yagoda said:

Americans starts with Philadelphia as first capital. I thought it would be more realistic to let them build Washington after all....

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Regardless of the name of the place, it could do with some snazzying up. Although with the threat of foreign invasion being non-existent in the early game, perhaps the barrenness is needed to balance them with Europe... I may have jumped to conclusions. --Btw, do you usually keep the Barbarians and/or Huts on in your games? I find that both of them merely add additional randomness to the game -- something that is not really needed -- so I always disable them. I'm fine with them being enabled though -- but if you prefer Raging Barbarians, then we might have a problem as I've never played Civ II with that setting on. Also, which difficulty do you usually set for the game? I've never played on Deity but I have played on the level right before that, so that's ok. I can try Deity as well, but the amount of early unhappiness has always kept me from playing on it in Civ II.

Yagoda said:

No, no Moscow is on a valuable place
And yes I can take Russia on our future next games! До победы товарищ! За мировая революция конечно!

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Google translate tells me that's "Before winning comrade! For world revolution of course!". Good enough for me!

... Since you can speak Russian: why did you choose to nerf Communism?

Yagoda said:

Ah yeah it's a mistake if the "taïga" terrain can be mined sorry
(you should remove it from the rules you sent on the forum)
Deserts can't be irrigated now, units only move once there.
Moutains can't be mined but gives one food and one shield.

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Done. I edited the posted file with the correct Rules.txt.

It makes sense that Forests can't be mined, Taiga or not. But why not Mountains? I'm curious as to your logic here. Mountains are already far worse than Hills even when they can be mined; imo there's no need for such a change. However, if you like the thought of Mountains as a barren, inhospitable terrain, in ToTPP there's the option to make them impassable. Imo the best option would be to make them such that only workers can enter them, and after they build roads, other units can enter. When I look at the mountain ranges on this map, I like the tactical possibilities that this offers; although if you can still attack into an unroaded mountain square, then it might be possible to simply pick off the enemy workers as they try to build that last bit of road to reach your lands. It will remains to be seen how (and even if) TheNamelessOne will implement this in the mod.

Yagoda said:

And yes we should have a try and you'll see game is not so unbalanced and distances not annoying but make the game more interesting!

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Looking forward to it! I will let you know when I can play (of course we can save in the middle, but I'd like to have a whole day or at least many hours to dedicate to the game when we start it).

Hi,


Yes I too remove Huts! Always! I'm too unlucky to let them
But I like to play with raging hordes.....

Actually I would rather to let mountains quite hostiles.... I don't like the idea to change every terrains of the map and cover the whole Tibet with mines..... there are already several gold mines where you can build small but rich cities!

The first sentence is more "until victory comrade" than "before". It's because of a declension that google can't translate I suppose.

I'm currently a bit free for two or three hours of game, then it won't be so easy..... can't we start quickly something? Anyway join the group and then we can talk about the games compatibilites....etc (don't bother about this)

Where do you live? (about time zone)

I live in Finland (gmt+2). Not sure when you posted (what time does the forum display?), but I was just informed that the heavy work day is tomorrow, not today. So I can play today in a few hours (three at most). I could play today until midnight or so, if we get the game working. Tomorrow it probably won't be possible. It's a pity if our schedules prevent a test session this week. Friday will be a busy day for me most likely too. In any case I will install Hamachi and try to find you there in a few hours.

Finally the work is finished and I can play. I installed Hamachi and tried joining your network, 'civ2/multi1', as stated in another thread. It says that I need to wait for the administrator's approval... I guess Hamachi will notify me if/when you get online? I'll wait for a few hours, but if you won't show up, then I'll get on with my evening activities. It's not the end of the world if our game gets postponed by a few days.

I looked at Yagoda's map the other night. Thank you Greizer85 for posting it.

This prompted me to look at some other large world maps I have downloaded from this site over the years. I thought others, particularly you two, may find it interesting.

A map designed by Denis Kozhin: 128x254 = 32512 tiles
A map designed by Julius Brenzaida: 127x230 = 29,210 tiles
The map designed by Yagoda: 144x227 = 32,688 tiles

These are within 10% of one another.

The terrain in Yagoda's map is quite rough and his explanation for it quite interesting: "Clean others parts of the world of their swamps and forests like if the world was in the XX century while you start at bronze age is simply a mistake." The thought never occurred to me but the point is well taken. However, this does not explain the abundance of mountains in your map nor some other oddities like tundra near Washington DC. Nevertheless, this is great work.

Greizer85, if you decide not to abandon your project may I suggest you start with one of the above and just refine it rather than start from scratch. Some time ago, I put down some notes for refinement of one of the above at a later date but I have no idea when I will get to it.

Last, but certainly not the least, I would like to invite you two to join us for the ongoing Game of The Month. We are not playing against other humans (which is what I believe Yagoda is actively interested in); we play against the computer. But we all start with same save and the object is to do better than other human players at the exact same game. We compare notes and logs as we play which makes it even more interesting. GOTM 159, which is the World War 2 scenario that shipped with the original version of the game, is still active. GOTM 160 was posted last week. The next one will be posted in early December. Perhaps we can play on your map!

Ali Ardavan said:

Greizer85, if you decide not to abandon your project may I suggest you start with one of the above and just refine it rather than start from scratch. Some time ago, I put down some notes for refinement of one of the above at a later date but I have no idea when I will get to it.

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I thought of this, but Yagoda might not appreciate me tinkering with his map, even if I put his name first in the credits. Even if he did allow it, it's somewhat of a vanity issue: I'd rather build the ship *and* paint it rather than just paint it, if you know what I mean. But if there are no Europe maps of equal stature to Yagoda's world map, then I might make one of those instead. Tbh I'm sick of world maps atm after having had to re-start so many times due to various issues (wrong kind of map projection, too much ocean, etc etc).

Be that as it may, now that I look at my map with Yagoda's rivers installed, it doesn't look half as bad anymore. The 'big and sprawling' rivers of the old default graphics made the hills and mountain ranges appear way out of scale, but with these more gentle curves it seems the scale is off by just a tiny bit. Perhaps just tiny enough to justify finishing the map (most of the work remains to be done ofc; even Africa needs a lot of refinement). We shall see, as the saying goes.

Ali Ardavan said:

Last, but certainly not the least, I would like to invite you two to join us for the ongoing Game of The Month. We are not playing against other humans (which is what I believe Yagoda is actively interested in); we play against the computer. But we all start with same save and the object is to do better than other human players at the exact same game. We compare notes and logs as we play which makes it even more interesting. GOTM 159, which is the World War 2 scenario that shipped with the original version of the game, is still active. GOTM 160 was posted last week. The next one will be posted in early December. Perhaps we can play on your map!

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Come to think of it, I've never actually finished the default WW II scenario, although I did come close a few times. But I'd rather not compete against guys who are counting their shields and beakers every turn and tinkering their way to victory with every dirty trick in the book (caravan spam and SSC, I'm looking at you *very* disapprovingly). I'd rather just role-play a world leader, as is the mentality of Yagoda, too, based on our recent conversations. For this way of playing, as long as certain gentlemen rules are obeyed, humans far outdo what computers are capable of. I'm a bit amazed why I didn't look up Civ II multiplayer in all these years. I suppose I thought everyone'd be the 'cutthroat' kind of player, going after your settlers from turn zero. Oh well, better late than never (assuming we get the game to actually work, which is another matter altogether).

EDIT: I might join a gotm where you're not allowed to build caravans.