Getting Started
- Thread starter Thalassicus
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Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
That's true, it's more complex and probably ends with a wash for annexation.
- Up to twice as much
while courthouse is building - More population builds the Courthouse faster
- City better off afterward
- Improves value of the -50% in
policy
Txurce
Deity
I had just decided to quit stealing workers because it felt a little exploitative, so was happy to see the new Workers SP, and definitely wouldn't want the worker price raised.
When evaluating the Siege promotion, keep in mind that splitting it into two is more of a nerf than moving it to Tier 2.
I don't find AI ICS a problem that needs fixing, unless the solution were very nuanced. First, looking at late-game maps shows that not all AI do it. Second, the late game expansion surge - explicitly added by the devs - makes sense to me with regard to settling those islands, etc. Why not build near a resource if your happiness can handle it? The AI building on top of you early on is annoying, of course, and often a guarantee of war. A looser-spacing mod like what Tomice mentioned sounds ideal, if achievable.
I just finished a game with v18, Free Research and WWGD. Overall the v18 balancing worked very well, with nothing jumping out at me as an obvious "do" or "never do." I played a builder game with a small, upgrading "original" army. The upgrade costs stung, but at the same time I had the added gold to upgrade. In fact, I've had a lot of gold in my last two games - enough to sign about 50% as many RA's as I used to, despite the Free Research nerf. This is only partly due to added use of TP's.
Also of note was how short a time gold maintained CS influence in the late game despite the Patronage buffs, with 2 AI having the influence-reducing SP. I was constantly filling the tank to keep it in the blue. It's worth considering that the AI now definitely competes for CS, and has more than enough gold to do so. While I see the value of buffing CS quests, I'm not so sure about the need to nerf bribing.
I liked oil being a second requirement for SS factories, but wonder if they should receive a bigger buff as a result. In theory, everything that requires two resources should.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@Txurce
Good point about the Siege promotion.
By looser spacing, do you mean a minimum city distance of 3? I've been thinking about it, though I'll probably wait until after the upcoming public release to experiment with that.
I'm glad gold income is working out well. What are the mult/div variables for citystate influence set to right now for you?
If the spaceship factory consumes oil it's a bug, could you double-check that? I only updated the Unit resource table, so anything else is unintentional:
Good point about the Siege promotion.
By looser spacing, do you mean a minimum city distance of 3? I've been thinking about it, though I'll probably wait until after the upcoming public release to experiment with that.
I'm glad gold income is working out well. What are the mult/div variables for citystate influence set to right now for you?
If the spaceship factory consumes oil it's a bug, could you double-check that? I only updated the Unit resource table, so anything else is unintentional:
Code:
UPDATE Unit_ResourceQuantityRequirements
SET ResourceType = "RESOURCE_OIL"
WHERE ResourceType = "RESOURCE_ALUMINUM"
AND NOT (
UnitType = "UNIT_JET_FIGHTER"
OR UnitType = "UNIT_STEALTH_BOMBER"
);
Ahriman
Tyrant
My problems with it are:
a) Its not a late game fill-in-the gaps thing. Most AIs will start building cities 2 tiles apart from the very beginning, and keep going, and be settling single tile islands *way* before they're actually useful.
b) Its very frustrating to fight against, because most of the cities are weak and annoying.
c) Its not actually a very good strategy anymore, given how buffed so many buildings are.
I agree that part of the problem is the fact that the AI can almost ignore happiness on the highest difficulty levels, but that's not the only problem; that affects number of cities, but not city spacing.
I think this is probably a decent short-term fix. Eventually once you have full dll access, a softer instrument is probably desirable (AI manipulation).
I don't really like oil as an SS factory requirement. It doesn't make logical sense, and its not really fun. I'd prefer to keep that as the one aluminium requirement, or have it use uranium.
I haven't tested this though, so this is theorycraft.
Also: does the combined mod still have all the various UI improvements merged in from some of those mods? It seemed to be missing a few of them now.
Txurce
Deity
1. Yes, that's what I meant by looser spacing. It's certainly worth experimenting with at some point.
2. The CS influence variables in v18 are 2, then 3.
3. I didn't know where to find what you asked for regarding the oil SS factory bug, but found this (paraphrased) in the BC General xml file:
Where BuildingType="BUILDING SPACESHIP FACTORY" resourceType="RESOURCE ALUMINUM" /> Set ResourceType="RESOURCE OIL."
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
1. Added that to v22
2. Returned CS influence bonuses back to before
3. Ooops that's a mistake, fixed it now. It was left over from when I was experimenting with a simple, global aluminum -> oil replacement.
I've updated, primarily with Español translations worked on by a generous person I've been corresponding with through emails... not sure what their CivFanatics username is, will be including them in the credits once I know.
I also changed from .zip to .7z format since I got my shell integration fixed for 7z.
2. Returned CS influence bonuses back to before
3. Ooops that's a mistake, fixed it now. It was left over from when I was experimenting with a simple, global aluminum -> oil replacement.
I've updated, primarily with Español translations worked on by a generous person I've been corresponding with through emails... not sure what their CivFanatics username is, will be including them in the credits once I know.
I also changed from .zip to .7z format since I got my shell integration fixed for 7z.
Txurce
Deity
I'm psyched to see the 3-space city placement mod in effect, and will start a new game sooner as a result. That's the idea, right?
I just saw that buying the 7z app costs $30. I can try it free for 45 days, but will this be the only way to use your mods in the future?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Where did you see that? 7z format has always been free. I included a link above the download on the first post.
http://www.7-zip.org/faq.html
Civ V uses the same format (civ5mod is just a renamed 7z file). It's been becoming a standard over the past few years because of the open source format and good compression, I cut the archive file from 2MB in zip to 1MB in 7z.
http://www.7-zip.org/faq.html
Civ V uses the same format (civ5mod is just a renamed 7z file). It's been becoming a standard over the past few years because of the open source format and good compression, I cut the archive file from 2MB in zip to 1MB in 7z.
Txurce
Deity
Thank you, all!
I'm a Mac user except when playing Civ. Then I use my girlfriend's giant-screen desktop. The PC couldn't open the 7-zip files, and steered me directly to three $30 apps (Winzip, etc.).
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I agree and don't consider it a permanent solution, but I'm willing to try it out.
Txurce
Deity
I'm curious - why do you think so?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
It's like the difference between nerfing overpowered GSs, compared to simply removing all specialists from the early game. It blocks early GSs without really changing the underlying issue. The better solution is to change the AI's priorities for tall vs broad empires, and how they value city spacing.
There's some other methods I've been trying... like lowering their priority to build settlers... the real risk I run is going too far the other way.
Also, it would help a lot if anyone trying out the beta versions starts a new game with v1.09.22 beta or higher, and plays through to the modern era. I'd like to get any bugs and tweaks hammered out for a public release.
There's some other methods I've been trying... like lowering their priority to build settlers... the real risk I run is going too far the other way.
Also, it would help a lot if anyone trying out the beta versions starts a new game with v1.09.22 beta or higher, and plays through to the modern era. I'd like to get any bugs and tweaks hammered out for a public release.
As I recall, there was a really complex ICSing AI mod someone came out with that rebuilt settler AI based on location. Perhaps some clever reverse engineering with plot valuation might be the right solution, albeit a much more difficult one.
Polycrates
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,288
I've been using 3-space for ages and I can confirm that it helps...somewhat. The AI still builds huge empires, but they're less of a cramped-in mass of stupid cities. Overall spacing is a lot better. Sometimes city placement is very odd, like they wanted to build on a sensible-but-still-cramped spot but couldn't, so instead just moved an extra tile away. They're less able to build those rubbish fill-in-the-gaps cities, and it does really hinder them building in the middle of your empire. Does nothing to stop them building on 1-tile islands, of course.
So yeah probably an improvement overall, but I agree it's pretty hacky. Not too bad as a bandaid until Firaxis or someone else improves settling AI.
Txurce
Deity
Thanks for the observations, Polycrates - it sounds promising overall. I actually like them building on those islands. What else are they for? I once did it myself on an island with three fish late in a game, bought the city some science buildings, and viewed it as an asset. I realize the AI probably doesn't manage it as well, but it must still provide some science and gold, with no real happiness penalty for the AI. The real issue, I think, is the happiness surfeit that leads the AI to do things the human wouldn't.
Polycrates
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,288
Yeah wasn't sure if there was something like that or not. If so, I think I like 25 as a value, though I'm biased by always playing raging barbs.
Fair enough, but on epic speed, buying workers is substantially cheaper than vanilla (vanilla is 420, modded is three-hundred and something). I saw a mod (alpaca's, I think?) that removed worker steal altogether, and just had worker destruction instead - an interesting idea, though I don't know if I like it or not. I will comment that in my last game, I managed to take two settlers and two workers from the barbarians (though that's utterly unprecedented in my experience).
I guess my concern is that it sort of feels like a return to the Civ IV model of suiciding a couple of cannon-fodder fresh-from-the-barracks city-raider-1 catapults/macemen against a city to begin an attack. I dunno, I just sort of feel that your city raiders ought to be a bit more elite, someone you really have to protect a bit and that the defender can focus on. And I'm not convinced it should be available to archers at all.
The other concern is that it almost counts as "amphibious" for the purposes of city attacking, and makes marines very easy to get (you can still get amphib itself at tier 2 to fully maximise the bonus, right?) rather than specialised elites.
That sounds pretty good.
Not sure what the current status is wrt keeping special promotions through upgrades, but with the more expensive upgrading I think this is fine. Since some of the UUs have special bonuses that make them useful even when they're a bit obsolete, I think this works nicely.
Yeah, I sort of feel it ought to still be food/growth related, and that wheat ought to give some sort of smokehouse-like bonus, even if it's more minor. Don't really have any other suggestions though.
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