[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

Good Sauce said:
i agree. i like the mana requirements, but geting all 14 at once is next to impossible w/o owning a huge swath of the map. perhaps it would be better just needing the four towers. that way you still need all the resources, just not all at once. that way you could 'reuse' nodes. (unless that's not possible... i've never tired)
another possibility asside from mana is to require sacrificing several high level casters to finish construction.

basically the problem is that the tower requires too much conquest, there really isn't a 'peaceful' win condition in FFH. warmongering is fun and all, but sometimes you just gotta turtle, ya know?
edit: post #100! hooray beer!

Founding a religion or two helps with the mana, as does a few Wonders, and in addition to that you can always trade for them. It's certainly not -easy- to get it, but then it should hardly be either, but it's decidedly possible. Three to start with, 1-2 from religions, say 1 from Aquae Sucellus.. That puts you up to 5-6, then if you have a decently sized empire you should easily have 3-5 mana nodes which gets you up to 8-11. Trade and/or conquer a few more and you're set.

And no, you can't reuse nodes any more. If you raze one it stays the same kind of mana you made it before, so you can't build something else on it. Only cultural conversions change it back to normal, raw mana.

And for turtling, there's Cultural victory. Requires no conquest whatsoever. In fact it technically doesn't even require you to build more than three cities, though I'd personally say it's a tad hard to make do with just three cities, unless you're playing as the Kuriotates. :p

Anyhew, anyhew..

Cheers!
 
thealien_83 said:
Trade and/or conquer a few more and you're set.
You're assuming the available mana is distributed across most of the types of mana, and that some of the other civilizations will convert generic mana to some of the unavailable (or rarer) mana types. It doesn't work that way in my experience.

I didn't regenerate the map so I had expected that all types of mana would be somewhere on the map. It was still missing four types by the time I was powerfull enough to see everywhere. The only wonder that produced a mana that wasn't commonly available was the soul forge. That meant the game hinged on being able to capture all of the generic mana before your opponents ever converted it to some type that you didn't need. And since I wanted to automate most of my workers (remember, this was a huge game), that meant I also had to guess what was not on the map whenever my workers wanted to convert some of my generic mana.
 
erm4gh said:
You're assuming the available mana is distributed across most of the types of mana, and that some of the other civilizations will convert generic mana to some of the unavailable (or rarer) mana types. It doesn't work that way in my experience.

I didn't regenerate the map so I had expected that all types of mana would be somewhere on the map. It was still missing four types by the time I was powerfull enough to see everywhere. The only wonder that produced a mana that wasn't commonly available was the soul forge. That meant the game hinged on being able to capture all of the generic mana before your opponents ever converted it to some type that you didn't need. And since I wanted to automate most of my workers (remember, this was a huge game), that meant I also had to guess what was not on the map whenever my workers wanted to convert some of my generic mana.

Hmmm... then you should go for the rarer mana types urself... curently playing as sheam (standard map) I'm pretty close to realising that goal (but of cause I rushed for the religions so I have 4 + dragon cult extra mana resources free) and I have yet to finish the great project that gives me even more mana nodes in the world.

In other words... it definately should be possible, and being able to change the nodes... well... that has been altered from earlier versions because it was too easy to "cheat" that way...(do correct me if I'm wrong about the reason for the change kael and friends ;) )

Oh yes... one more thing... the manas avalible from your enemy depends on who you are playing against... they seem to have prefered mana types...
 
thealien_83 said:
And for turtling, there's Cultural victory. Requires no conquest whatsoever. In fact it technically doesn't even require you to build more than three cities, though I'd personally say it's a tad hard to make do with just three cities, unless you're playing as the Kuriotates. :p

I'm doing it with the Calabim right now on Prince level (never played anything higher :) ) And I only founded exactly three cities (though I must admit that later on in the game I converted one of my neighbour's cities).

As for the Tower victory, I never seriously went after it. My PC is only capable of sustaining smaller that standard maps, so the only conditions I ever go after are Religious and Cultural (I've never been much of a warmonger).
 
Have you started working on Hell?

For Luchirup: Instead Barnaux sharing combat 1-5 promotions, he could share Golem Mastery 1-5 promotions. Each Golem Mastery would require combat as prerequisite (So Golem Mastery 1 requires combat 1, golem mastery 2 requires golem mastery 1 and combat 2 etc. ) So to reach full strenght, you would need Barnaux to reach level 11 instead lvl. 6. That could be solution to problem.
 
erm4gh said:
You're assuming the available mana is distributed across most of the types of mana, and that some of the other civilizations will convert generic mana to some of the unavailable (or rarer) mana types. It doesn't work that way in my experience.

I didn't regenerate the map so I had expected that all types of mana would be somewhere on the map. It was still missing four types by the time I was powerfull enough to see everywhere. The only wonder that produced a mana that wasn't commonly available was the soul forge. That meant the game hinged on being able to capture all of the generic mana before your opponents ever converted it to some type that you didn't need. And since I wanted to automate most of my workers (remember, this was a huge game), that meant I also had to guess what was not on the map whenever my workers wanted to convert some of my generic mana.

Since mana (supposedly) reverts back to raw unprocessed mana upon cultural conversion to a new civ's territory, I don't see what the problem is. That's how it's supposed to work in the current version. I don't rightly know if you have to raze the mana node before your borders gobble it up or not, haven't had time to play 0.15c enough to try it myself. But either way, that's how I've been told it's supposed to work, and if it doesn't you might want to report that as a bug.

I don't know exactly what you mean by this: 'I didn't regenerate the map so I had expected that all types of mana would be somewhere on the map', since regenerating the map has nothing to do with it, given that all mana starts as generic, not any specific kind.

And with that in mind, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, as was said.

But as noted, if the cultural conversion of mana thing doesn't work, let Kael know.

Cheers.
 
evanb said:
I'm doing it with the Calabim right now on Prince level (never played anything higher :) ) And I only founded exactly three cities (though I must admit that later on in the game I converted one of my neighbour's cities).

As for the Tower victory, I never seriously went after it. My PC is only capable of sustaining smaller that standard maps, so the only conditions I ever go after are Religious and Cultural (I've never been much of a warmonger).

Religious tends to require rampant warmongering to win in all my games. xD I've only ever once come close to winning religious without spreading my religion by sword and fire, as it were. Normally there are just too many religions hogging the action so if I want a chance of mine dominating I have to take to conquest and inquisitions to make it so. *s*

Cheers!
 
thealien_83 said:
Since mana (supposedly) reverts back to raw unprocessed mana upon cultural conversion to a new civ's territory, I don't see what the problem is. That's how it's supposed to work in the current version. I don't rightly know if you have to raze the mana node before your borders gobble it up or not, haven't had time to play 0.15c enough to try it myself. But either way, that's how I've been told it's supposed to work, and if it doesn't you might want to report that as a bug.

I don't know exactly what you mean by this: 'I didn't regenerate the map so I had expected that all types of mana would be somewhere on the map', since regenerating the map has nothing to do with it, given that all mana starts as generic, not any specific kind.

And with that in mind, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, as was said.

But as noted, if the cultural conversion of mana thing doesn't work, let Kael know.

Cheers.

The cultural conversion definitely works for me. You don't have to raze anything. As soon as the mana node is no longer in the enemy's territory, it reverts back to raw.

In fact, with the new three nodes in a palace, I think it's almost easier to get a tower victory...at least in terms of getting manas. As was already mentioned, if you found two religions or so, plus your three, plus get tomb of sucellus and soul forge, that's already seven types of mana. Then, if you're deliberate about who you conquer and when (conquering other nations that founded other religions), you should have no problem combining your manas to get the tower.

The hardest part of it all, in my opinion, is the sheer cost of building all of the towers. I know this was addressed in a recent patch, so I'm going to have to try it out...:crazyeye:
 
Downloading the FfH theme right now. I suggest adding a link to it on the first post in this thread: I had to go to the Warhammer FB thread to retrieve it.
 
Hm im just playing and im doing very good. I am playing...a race which is neutral and as body, dimensional and i think water mana at the beginning.
I was the first to research the tech for Octupus Overlords religion and got the holy city. Unfortunally though, i cant convert my state religion at all. What did i miss ?

thanks
 
AncientSion said:
Hm im just playing and im doing very good. I am playing...a race which is neutral and as body, dimensional and i think water mana at the beginning.
I was the first to research the tech for Octupus Overlords religion and got the holy city. Unfortunally though, i cant convert my state religion at all. What did i miss ?

thanks


Leaders with the "Agnostic" trait are not allowed to adopt state religions.
 
Ok, perhaps this isnt the best place to post this question but seeing as i couldnt find any other place to post it....

Kael, have you ever considered writing your FfH world into a book? If not, why not? ;)

I for one would certainly buy it (as long as you have any sort of skill with a pen! :p )

Just a thought,

mrkingkong

EDIT: oh and PS. i would also like to point out that i didnt just mean to give full credit solely to Kael for the work of a fantastic mod team. so here goes... Fantastic work team! ;)
 
Downloaded, installed, patched. Started the game and chose to load a mod. Ok'd the restart and game shuts down then...........nothing. I've waited a few minutes each time I tried, but it doesn't restart for me. Checked the task manager and it's definitely trying to do something......


OK nevermind, it looks like its starting now. Is it supposed to to take this long? Bearing in mind I do have a laggy experience when playing standard or larger maps.
 
If you want help keeping track of your tower of mastery victory status, open any city, and mouse over each of the towers in the build menu, it will tell you what more you must have to build each. I agree that having these listed in the victory screen would be nice, especially for casual player who didn't know what ToM was, but the above method is functionaly similar.
 
mrkingkong said:
Ok, perhaps this isnt the best place to post this question but seeing as i couldnt find any other place to post it....

Kael, have you ever considered writing your FfH world into a book? If not, why not? ;)

I for one would certainly buy it (as long as you have any sort of skill with a pen! :p )

Just a thought,

mrkingkong

EDIT: oh and PS. i would also like to point out that i didnt just mean to give full credit solely to Kael for the work of a fantastic mod team. so here goes... Fantastic work team! ;)

I would love to make a book but I am limited by my own poor writing and short attention span.

This mod actually works perfectly for me. I can write a ton of little mini-stories that I can do in one sitting instead of trying to work on some larger project that I will never complete.
 
carnivore said:
how much work is left for this to be a complete stable game ?


thanx

I think we have ourselves a relativly stable, playable and enjoyable game. Version 0.15 is really a polish version and adds in a lot of the final touches that make it play more smoothly.
 
Patch "D" is up and linked in the first post. It fixes the following issues:

1. Cult of the Dragon units aren't multiplied by the the Roar ability.
2. Added some graphics to the popups.
3. Blocked other players from seeing the Barbarian betrayal and Infernal Grimoire popups.
4. Added Defeated popups for each of the leaders.
5. Removed Losha's undead promotion.
6. Made mana nodes visible from the begining.
7. Moroi lost the Burning Blood ability.
8. Elven Worker workrate reduced from 100 to 80.
9. Dwarven Slave workrate increased from 50 to 60.
10. Elven Slave workrate reduced from 50 to 40.
11. Ashen Veil CTD finally fixed!
12. Losha given the Sorcery promotion.
13. Ravenous Werewolves start with the correct promotions.
14. New City Art for the Ljosalfar, Bannor, Calabim, Luchuirp and Lanun palaces.
 
Kael said:
Patch "D" is up and linked in the first post. It fixes the following issues:

1. Cult of the Dragon units aren't multiplied by the the Roar ability.
2. Added some graphics to the popups.
3. Blocked other players from seeing the Barbarian betrayal and Infernal Grimoire popups.
4. Added Defeated popups for each of the leaders.
5. Removed Losha's undead promotion.
6. Made mana nodes visible from the begining.
7. Moroi lost the Burning Blood ability.
8. Elven Worker workrate reduced from 100 to 80.
9. Dwarven Slave workrate increased from 50 to 60.
10. Elven Slave workrate reduced from 50 to 40.
11. Ashen Veil CTD finally fixed!
12. Losha given the Sorcery promotion.
13. Ravenous Werewolves start with the correct promotions.
14. New City Art for the Ljosalfar, Bannor, Calabim, Luchuirp and Lanun palaces.

Is the Loki fix coming?
 
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