[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

On Quick games in Vanilla Civ, I've often reached Future Tech 20 or more before the scheduled end of the game.
 
Way back I got a lot of feedback that the game was ending before the players had a chance to do a lot of stuff. Right now it is set at double the nomral game turns for every gamespeed. So since the normal game is 320 quick, FfH is 640, etc.

Now just about everything has changed since then, including the tech tree and research costs. So those numbers may need to be adjusted again. Maybe I could drop them to 1.5 times the normal values?
 
Kael said:
Way back I got a lot of feedback that the game was ending before the players had a chance to do a lot of stuff. Right now it is set at double the nomral game turns for every gamespeed. So since the normal game is 320 quick, FfH is 640, etc.

Now just about everything has changed since then, including the tech tree and research costs. So those numbers may need to be adjusted again. Maybe I could drop them to 1.5 times the normal values?

Yes maybe, well you(or somebody else) have to test it lol, its just a bit pity you know, I didnt even continue that game after that..
 
I actually like the way the speeds are set. It gives you alot of time to use the tier 4 units. Also Arlborn, if you dont have anything else to resaerch why dont you either go to 0% research and rushbuy a big army and declare war. And if you dont like that idea you could just attempt a cultural victory, by also setting you reseach to 0% and your culture as high as possible.

I dont think the point of Ffh is to play to the very end anyways, I always try to win before then.
 
I think the early game is a bit too slow. It takes very long to advance from warriors to axemen/archer era. Maybe add something like spearman and maybe some combat-magic-user. Like an apprentice or whatever. Just to make the early game a bit more interesting, until you develope nodes.
 
I agree. Late game is fine. Early game is too slow. I always play on Quick and even that seems very slow to me.
 
Fr8Train said:
I agree. Late game is fine. Early game is too slow. I always play on Quick and even that seems very slow to me.


early game is fast imo. i usually have an army of drown and adepts within the first number of turns. as far as military, things seem to advance a lot faster than vanilla. since its easy to get a number of stronger than average units early if you go for the right techs. but as you said, i do play on quick (i always play on quick)
 
Kael said:
Now just about everything has changed since then, including the tech tree and research costs. So those numbers may need to be adjusted again. Maybe I could drop them to 1.5 times the normal values?

I'd vote for that. I just love this mod. Never want it to come to an end.
 
Tim_Olaguna said:
I'd vote for that. I just love this mod. Never want it to come to an end.

Will do .
 
Fr8Train said:
I agree. Late game is fine. Early game is too slow. I always play on Quick and even that seems very slow to me.

The early game is for exploring. Typically players who play with full civ loads for their map dont get to do much exploring. I typically recommend you play with a few civs less than normal to make the barbarians a little more interesting and give you more time to look around.

If you like to play on maps full of other players you may want to consider starting in the classical era and skipping the ancient.
 
I like the early game. As Kael put it, playing on a huge map gives time to explore and plan your moves. I enjoy knowing that every decision matters, I play on epic, so I need to plan my strategies ahead of time and choose whats right for my civ. The ancient era gives you the opportunity to slowly build your cities, if not your army.
 
Sargain said:
Kael,

Are you going to be implementing Warlords Compatibility to your Mods?

There are no plans to convert FfH to warlords. Those aspects of Warlords we like most we are backreving into FfH. The only feature I would love to include and I can't because its just to big to rewrite is the vassal states. So we probably won't get those, but we just don't see that its worth all the work to convert (and isolate our non-warlord friends) just for that feature.
 
Kael said:
The early game is for exploring. Typically players who play with full civ loads for their map dont get to do much exploring. I typically recommend you play with a few civs less than normal to make the barbarians a little more interesting and give you more time to look around.

If you like to play on maps full of other players you may want to consider starting in the classical era and skipping the ancient.

I normally play on huge maps with no tech trading and add a couple more civs than recommended. There are still tons of animals and barbarians.
 
THIS MOD IS AMAZING !!!
thanks to the mod team that invested all the time, ideas and resources to create this masterpiece of work :goodjob:

I really love fantasy, i started playing this mod some weeks ago (i installed windows on my mac to be able to play it :mischief: ) and i am still impressed.

for sure, the elfs are the most individuall (graphics, ancient forests ...) after that i started with the orks and now vampires (calabim) i think the civilizations are well done, some leaders could might have "better" pictures but in generall i really start to feel like my civilization.

the only thing that really disapointed me a bit was the religion topic. playing as the "good" faction is fine, you can choose nature - dwarfs or humans can also go for earth. but playing the evil civs the only fast religion is overlords and its not realy fun to play them as a "land focused civilization". i tryed to reach ashen veil but its so hard to get that my citiys where full of other religions bevore i could discover it.

from my point of view it should be easy in the eraly game to reach at least one neutral, good and evil religion. it hurted my eyes to see the calabim beliving in a nature relgion.
 
having read through a lot of the stuff on this page and the ffh forum, thought id put in my input on a few issues...

1) Morai and burning blood

is it not possible to give them back the ability without them being able to go up the divine spell path if they upgrade, i.e. a check for promotions (Does unit have the vampire trait? if equals yes, no level 3 divine).

Or remove the burning blood trait if they promote (the description had the frenzy destroy the body because the vampiric frenzy was to much for the mortal body... but now there vamps the body can control it and they will probably have learnt to control the rage... and for those with a tendency to still frenzy, there obviously destined to become brujah!)

Or would it be possible to mirror the mechanics of the spell and give them burning blood as a promotion rather than a spell

my personal favourite is option 2, burning blood was a big part of the feel of the calibam with there total disregard for there people, it also ties in with the almost divine light the morai hold the vamps in... also it led to the situation were you sometimes had a difficult chose in that do you burning blood that unit with 5 stars to defiantly win... or do you risk it in order to promote the unit to a vamp. with this option you also remove the ability to create 'hero-killing-missiles' (i.e. create morai (with burning blood) upgrade to vamp (keep burning blood) eat city till pumped, cast burning blood, attack hero with an effective combat str of up near 20... theres not many heros who can take that, so yes i think it needs to be removed from vamps

2) Game length

Keal you have this spot on, getting to the end of the game with the highest score isnt winning its survivng, and that shoiuldn't be enough to 'win' in a fantasy setting. fantasy is about epic wars, massive monuments and al consuming religion and yes spreading your culture throughout the world (mainly because this is seen as a good reason for someone else to jump down the offenders throat and begin the epic wars (yes classic fantasy elves im looking at you!))

Personally i always play custom games and turn time victories off... but that might just be me!

3) Adaptive Trait
Wow.... great idea... but WAY to hard, also robs some of the races of there flavour... but from a balance issue... to hard, especially in multiplayer where you can match your traits to beat you opponents (yes i know thats the point of being adaptive... but game balance!).

i know your looking at being able to switch traits after 100-200 turns... but here is my radical suggestion to try and match the huge advantage this gives them ... let them start with one less trait until this point, then they can adapt and gain this second (3rd - kurocates) trait once the games is running and they can see what they have to adapt to... id also remove it from the barbs, but more for reasons of preference (just cant see the orc sitting down to discuss culture!)

4) not using resources
now i dont know if this is a problem with vanilla civ or just ffh, but the comp doesn't seem to use resources properly or upgrade units. for example the computer has bronze in the boarders(or iron) and the bronze (or iron) working tech(several times because i've given it to them!) and yet doesnt mine the resource and still requires it on the trade screen, this obviously means they dont upgrade warriors,axemen,macemen and in almost all games i find myself fighting ranger/scout, archer/crossbows, religious higher tier units but no melee units as they have the resource requirement.

this seems to be more of an issue if the ai has built something on the square before it gets the tech (which it normally has) now any human would probably nuke a farm or cottage to mine there only source of copper/iron, but not the ai

5 Religions
I'm wondering if its possible to add some adaptations to some religions if there founded by certain civs, its probably best if i show you with examples

The Hippus - Nature
The only religion that seems to naturally fit with the hippus would be the fellowship of leaves(or whatever its called) as a nature worshiping base, but i see these raiders more as open plains/horse worshipers than loving the 'slows-the-horses-down' trees , i know it would be to much to totally swap all the benefits round to grasslands/plains but would it be possible to put in a different version of the temples and priests (i.e instead of temple of leaves have temple of the horse (same effects/different name) with the same sort of thing for the priests) also the hero, would it be possible to give the hippus a different hero if they found the religion, someone on horse as the elf dont fit!

The ORCS (barb civ) - Way of the earthmother
not much to ask except if they found this religion would it be possible for them to have a different skinned and named hero... a dwarf with his background just aint right with the orcs! keep all the same abilities and the hero slot, but just make him someone else!

The Calabam - Ways of the deep
If i play the vamps and found this i always imagine this as them finding some ancient immobile vamp god under the holy city (and being as this is normally founded way before vamps) and look at the drown as ancient unevolved vamps (ala season 7 buffy) and the stygian guards as holy vampire guardians... basically with this combo i think it would be sweet to rename the drown (something like the 'first childe' or 'first children') and a vamp type hero instead of the defult one.

Theses suggestions would/should only occur if that civ founds the religion, and not come into effect if it spreads into the civs citys from outside it just seems a shame that several civs have to 'make-do' with religions that are obviously tailored to other civs (leaves/elves - eartmother/dwarfs) and short of creating more religions, i thought this might be the next best thing.

i realise these suggestions are very work heavy but hope that you at least find the comments useful (even if a little long!)

thanks for listening!
 
I'm pretty sure the "unique" units for certain races when founding a religion is a bad idea because the heroes are not ONLY for the founding race... but for all races that adapt to that religion as state religion.

As for game time... I never look at how much time I have left to play... and playing on marathon, I see no problems at all with the time for developing your civilization in any way (units, towns, techs etc.).

Just my 2 cents...
 
question:

i am playing the dwarfs right now (Khazad) as more money they get as better they become is in the civ des. if i play them i also see a little lable that changes if i overstep a certain amount of money.

so far so good but what exactly changes? i could not find any information in the faq about that? does someone knows the effects that result from my gold?

thanks
JFK
 
xxJFKxx said:
question:

i am playing the dwarfs right now (Khazad) as more money they get as better they become is in the civ des. if i play them i also see a little lable that changes if i overstep a certain amount of money.

so far so good but what exactly changes? i could not find any information in the faq about that? does someone knows the effects that result from my gold?

thanks
JFK

It's all in the pedia under "Dwarven Vault", but there are several levels of the vault:

Empty (-2 happiness I think)
Low (-1 happiness)
Stocked (no change)
Abundant (+1 happiness and maybe +10% production?)
Full (+2 happiness and maybe +20% production?)
Overflowing (+2 happiness, +40% production, +25% great people?)

I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but it's something like that. If you keep your gold to at least 150 per city, you'll always be at Stocked. If you can arrange to always have 500 gold per city you'll be at overflowing which willl be a huge help to your civilization. The exact gold amounts needed are also in the pedia.
 
xxJFKxx said:
THIS MOD IS AMAZING !!!
thanks to the mod team that invested all the time, ideas and resources to create this masterpiece of work :goodjob:

I really love fantasy, i started playing this mod some weeks ago (i installed windows on my mac to be able to play it :mischief: ) and i am still impressed.

for sure, the elfs are the most individuall (graphics, ancient forests ...) after that i started with the orks and now vampires (calabim) i think the civilizations are well done, some leaders could might have "better" pictures but in generall i really start to feel like my civilization.

the only thing that really disapointed me a bit was the religion topic. playing as the "good" faction is fine, you can choose nature - dwarfs or humans can also go for earth. but playing the evil civs the only fast religion is overlords and its not realy fun to play them as a "land focused civilization". i tryed to reach ashen veil but its so hard to get that my citiys where full of other religions bevore i could discover it.

from my point of view it should be easy in the eraly game to reach at least one neutral, good and evil religion. it hurted my eyes to see the calabim beliving in a nature relgion.

In the next patch we have reduced the research cost of way of the wise and way of the wicked to help the Order and the Ashen Veil get founded earlier.
 
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