Building Made Fun!

Hey mate, have you lately checked the database.log file for errors from your mod?

There are a couple of issues, like BUILDINGCLASS_KREPOST which doesn’t exist or accidental BUILDING_BUILDING_* typos. Check the log file for details.

Nice mod, by the way! I’m currently making my Unit-Tweaks mod compatible to yours that's why I noticed.
 
But to be honest I'm losing steam and looking for a definite endpoint in devellopment, or someone to take over...

losing steam ? does that mean you discovered 'combustion' ?

at the moment i only play with bmf enabled :) and try to combine it with some others ... the various building effects and wonders and technology etc... to me the changes make more sense than the vanilla versions.(well at least for me ;) )

the qanat maybe could be a tick easier to build.. .. but if i remember right you are going to change that or already did ?.... think i never built one so far ;)

good luck with further evolving bmf. looking forward to see another version of it .
 
@Mentos:

I don't think I have since the first week or so :blush: Got it now, great tip, at the perfect time!
I'll add a recommendation for your mod and return the favor :) For the upcoming version I had all siege up to artillery require iron; will scratch that now.

@Capt_Skirk:

Thanks for the thumbs up :) I'm glad vanilla disappointed me also to the extend of making me create this mod ;)
The qanat will remain the same; it's something to aim for when selecting a city site. But you are probably right about the severely limited opportunities; I almost exclusively play my earth map though and there are many suitable plots to be found there.

@all

I'll be releasing v 10 soon, the final version by my hand. Thanks again for the support so far :)
I'm proud of this mod and want to see it live on, that's why I'm handing it over to Pouakai. I feel I'm out of ideas and fear it would make the mod go stale and slowly die. Pouakai will bring a much needed fresh view and ditto ideas. I'm grateful and confident, looking forward to behold the new heights he will reach :)
 
And voila, v10 is here. Additions since 9.3 are few:
  • Furnace: req factory and 4 iron, grants +25% building :c5production: and +15% wonder :c5production:
  • Broadway by Pouakai and sukritact
  • Growth process by TanisX: req refrigeration, 15% :c5production: to :c5food:
  • Moved explorer graphics to Terra Nostra (can't combine unit graphics over mods), use scout one instead when not running TN

@Mentos: should you want me to change something to ensure compatibility with your Unit-Tweaks mod just tell me! I'm holding off uploading v10 to the mod browser for now.
 
Thanks, but no need. Just do your thing and I'm going to adapt. My upcoming v21 must be loaded after yours then doing all the necessary compatibility tweaks.
 
Ehm, there is maybe something: If you don't need this PROMOTION_EXPLORATION anymore then please delete it from your mod. There is a limit of promotions the game can handle and I already scratch on that together with TBC.
No idea yet but is this mod compatible to TBC?
 
Heh, I guessed so about TBC. Doesn't matter.
I’m still busy studying your mod and don’t have a full overview about anything yet. Something what’s in vanilla and in your mod partly missing: XP-buildings for Naval and Air units.

My suggestion:

Barracks: +15 XP for all Units (Domain: Land, Naval, and Air)
Armory: +10 XP for all Land Units, like in your mod
Drydock: +10 XP for all Naval Units, like in your mod
Military Academy: +20 XP for all Units (Domain: Land, Naval, and Air)
Airport: +10 XP for all Air Units

Then all built units would start with +45 XP = Level 3.

Sounds good?
 
Yes, there is a nice logic to it. Maybe I'll have the barracks require upkeep again then; looks powerful.
 
I'm not sure right now about Air Domain. Maybe Nuclear Missiles and such could also get XP if you use Building_DomainFreeExperiences. You need to test that. Otherwise, better use Building_UnitCombatFreeExperiences with UNITCOMBAT_FIGHTER and UNITCOMBAT_BOMBER.

If you quickly want to add buildings to a city during tests then I highly recommend using the Have Fun mod if you don't know it yet. I use it all the time while modding.
 
My suggestion:
Barracks: +15 XP for all Units (Domain: Land, Naval, and Air)
Armory: +10 XP for all Land Units, like in your mod
Drydock: +10 XP for all Naval Units, like in your mod
Military Academy: +20 XP for all Units (Domain: Land, Naval, and Air)
Airport: +10 XP for all Air Units

Just popping in, but I'd point out what I did in my own mod:
Barracks: +15XP for land units
Armory: +10XP for land units, +10% to all unit production (not just land units)
Military Academy: +10XP for air units, +10% to all unit production, and all units start with the custom "Elite" promotion that lets them gain XP 25% faster, reduces upgrade costs by 20%, and adds +1 visibility.
Arsenal: +5XP for land units, +20% to unit production
Harbor and Seaport: each adds +15XP to naval units, in addition to their other effects. (Harbors also add +1 gold to Whales and Pearls in my mod, so you have good reasons to build them more often.)
(I also added two future-era military buildings, the Bioenhancement Center and Aerospace Complex. But let's ignore those. Also I've got a national wonder that gives +20XP to all units within a city, and a policy that adds +10 to all.)

With this distribution, land and sea units end up with +30XP, air units only with +10, and the custom promotion at Military Academy applies to all domains equally.

The problem with giving air units a high starting XP is Logistics; with two city-siege promotions or three land promotions, you can get Logistics, which instantly doubles the effectiveness of the air units. So if you played America (B17s start with the first anti-city promotion) and had +30XP, your B17s and Stealth Bombers could START with Logistics, and be ridiculously effective. That's a huge balance headache; for artillery units they'd have to get to 100 XP to do the same, so it only rarely happens for them.
 
Oh, okay. I'm not so familiar anymore with the vanilla promotion system. I've moved Blitz/Logistics/Sortie to Level 8 at earliest in my Unit-Tweaks mod, so that's at least balanced in my mod.

I leave the decision to Moriboe what to do. I can still add a tweak to my mod if someone plays with BMF and UT together.
 
I opted for a middle way approach and added:

Military Academy: +20XP for naval
Airport: +10XP for air (fighter/bomber)

With the vanilla experience system, that means both naval and air can get one extra promotion for free now (1 -> 2 and 0 -> 1 respectively). As these are the number of promotions in Spatzimaus' mod, I assume it's balanced ;)

Applied it to v10.1, along with some minor tweaks. Finally deleted the mutually exclusiveness of Liberty and Autocracy. I just never took the latter.


@Mentos:

I used the UnitCombat one. Also using Have Fun all the time when modding :)

@Spatzimaus

Good info! I think I can count the number of planes I built on one hand, so I had no idea about balance issues.
 
As these are the number of promotions in Spatzimaus' mod, I assume it's balanced

Not quite; I also decreased the XP per fight an air unit gets from 4 to 2. After all, barring those few turns when the units are healing or rebasing, bombers are going to be getting in one fight per turn for pretty much their entire lifespans. So I needed to slow down how quickly they were gaining promotions.

But the general sentiment is okay; starting an air unit with 1 promotion isn't unbalancing; it's just when you can get to 2 or more promotions easily that there's a problem. 10 XP is fine, 30 is problematic.

Secondary note: in my mod, when a unit is created it gets the Rookie promotion. For its first fight, that unit is -25% to combat, but gets double the normal XP from that first fight. After that fight the Rookie status goes away and the unit progresses as normal. So that doubled XP from the first fight goes a ways towards a new promotion, meaning an extra ~5 XP for land units once they've had a fight.
Tertiary note: I've also got it giving certain "elite" units an extra +10 to +30 XP when the game starts, regardless of what buildings are in the city. That way I can have a few units within a given combat class starting with more XP than others. Only problem is that while you get the XP at creation, you can't use it until the following turn or until you've taken certain actions.

Oh, and something I spotted a page back about the Imperial Road Network suggestion:
Movement bonuses are not found in the Buildings table and I can't import them from somewhere else. I'm not sure if your proposal can be done at all with currently available tools.

They're not directly in that table, but you can do the next best thing. In my mod, I've got a wonder called the Planetary Transit System that, among other things, gives every friendly unit that started the turn within my borders a temporary +1 movement promotion. It's a simple end-of-turn Lua check, looping over every unit to decide whether or not it should have that promotion. It's not an explicit road boost, but it has a similar effect.

Alternately, you can create a new hidden and Disabled technology. If a civ builds this wonder, use a Lua event to give it that technology at the end of the turn. Then, in the CIV5Routes.xml table, you just add a movement boost on roads/railroads for anyone who has that technology, in the same way that civs get road boosts currently at Machinery. The math is a bit complex, but it shouldn't be too hard to ballpark it.
Since it's a Disabled tech, no one would be able to get it through Great Scientists or Research Agreements. However, city-states and barbarians WOULD get it eventually, through their secondary "tech stealing" mechanism (which ignores the Disabled flag), and if you use any other mods that depend on the number of techs a civ has (like Tech Diffusion) it'd count towards those.

Basically, if you're willing to use a little Lua, there are several ways to do things like this. In my own mod I've got wonders that give all enemy units within my borders a negative promotion, buildings that give units that start the turn in that city a temporary promotion (the Space Elevator and Aerospace Complex, which give paradrop-like promotions to mimic the old Airlift mechanisms), a wonder that gives all enemy civs -10 Happiness, and so on. So a lot of things are possible.
 
I'm fine with those XP settings now.
The airplanes still have the advantage that they don't have to worry counterattacks like land or naval units. If you know there is no anti-air resistance then they can earn XP like mad and always return to safety in cities afterwards.


I've tested compatibility to CiVUP, the Unofficial Patch from Thal.
Looks okay so far. There is only one double text-insert from TXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE in terrain.xml.

If you delete possibly existing inserts from other mods before adding your own, then there won't be any conflicts. Those other mods just have to be activated before yours. Deleting text this way is fine but don't do that with promotions.

Code:
	<Language_en_US>
		<Delete Tag="TXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE"/>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE">
			<Text>Science</Text>
		</Row>
	</Language_en_US>


For those interested playing CiVUP with all the many UI changes, AutoTips, Capital Railroad Boost, FlagPromotion, etc. together with BMF then install and activate the latest TBC version before BMF and put an underscore into the TBC folder-name at beginning like below:

MODS\Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v XX)
_TBC - Thals Balance Combined
CiVUP - Civ V Unofficial Patch

It should work together, otherwise I'm going to slap Thal. :)
 
@Spatzimaus:

Clearly I'm thinking inside the box :) I may give the second approach a try, doesn't sound too hard. And it's about time I get into Lua!

@Mentos:

I'll alter the TXT_KEY_YIELD_SCIENCE as you suggest :)
Didn't know I could single out the Unofficial Patch. I will have a look and see what else in there is modular. Could be interesting as I like a lot of the changes, especially the nerfing of puppets.

I finished a test game yesterday, trying out the military stuff. Well, just a little of it actually as I didn't need planes or a navy, and my small army was sufficient :/
Will boost the arsenal also; still haven't built that.


And thank you guys for your help and advise :)
 
Looks like there is more needed to make BMF compatible to CiVUP. There is at least the TechTree.lua, the ProductionPopup.lua, and ActionIcons.lua what is also conflicting.

It&#8217;s mainly the Food Process addition what breaks the CiVUP. It would have to be merged into the CiVUP&#8217;s ProductionPopup.lua code to make both run together.
A simple workaround for someone without patience and knowledge like me is to remove your files

ProductionPopup.lua
ProductionPopup.xml
TechTree.lua
(ActionIcons.lua)

or put an underscore before those file-names. That would only ditch the Food Process addition. Well, both mods seem to work then but no guaranty!
I just saw that ActionIcons.lua includes new build options. Well, that obviously shouldn't be kicked and rather the CiVUPs lua file. Oh my...

No idea yet what all your other LUA files are doing. Yeah, maybe you'll fine a way how to make things more compatible.
Thal has already made several UI mods compatible to each other in CiVUP and put more enhanced functionality to that (which I bet only few smart mortals would ever know how to work with them).
I see no reason why not make use of his contribution. It's only 2 MB (230kb packed) more if someone includes that to own mods without the need to download CiVUP+TBC and install that separately

Compatibility quickly ends with LUA that's why I'm not eager using it. :D
 
I made a test with following mods in order of installation/activation if they run together:

--
CivWillard v1
Improved Demographics v3
InfoAddict v13
Have Fun ! v2
--
City State Diplomacy Mod v22
Not Another City States Mod v11 (SaveUtils.lua possibly conflicts with CiVUP’s version but could be overwritten and do no harm. Not sure yet)
CiVUP v72.2.1beta (TBC disabled)
Building Made Fun v10.1 (disabled TechTree.lua, ProductionPopup.lua and ProductionPopup.xml)
Unit-Tweaks v22 (no real diff to v21 so far)
R.E.D. modpack v10
--
28 custom wonder mods (which are compatible to BMF, so no double wonders)
Native Wonders v15 (minor diff to v14)
--
Personal Mod (with Kill City State missions disabled, equalized Prince diff grade, and Tech - Satellites Reveal Cities mod)


It took one minute to wait for the civ selection and another running/loading a game with only a duel-size map on my rig, but it worked. Nothing was clearly messed up at least.
I’m still not so sure if NOCSM, BMF, and CiVUP harmonize with each other. Can’t say anything about lua files working together but most seem to do.

There is hope at least! :D
 
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