Sword of Islam: Strategy discussion
- Thread starter Jusos2108
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Massawa gets the same spice and incense..
AnotherPacifist
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It really depends on what you want with your cities. In my game, Lahore already had 2 national wonders, so I can't build the Royal Mausoleum for the 100% culture. I use it as the troop production city instead (settled 3 great generals there), while Multan (equally well endowed with rivers and can use the Bridge of 33 Arches to good effect) concentrated on culture/money buildings instead. Multan is actually better because it's got flood plains (it sustained 3-4 artists without slowing growth down), as opposed to Lahore which needs to work its plains for growth. Multan hit legendary in 1608.
(I'm still playing with the "fastest virtual UHV" challenge in mind)
AnotherPacifist
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Thanks for all the guides
About Ottomans... that's also a cheap shot. You really don't have to capture Constantinople on 1st turn, and UHVs are doable with capturing Constantinople as late as in 1450, and with no free tech. Surely you can restart until you can capture Constantinople on turn 1 (I did the same in vanilla RFC with Ottomans...) but why would the UHV "depend" on it?
Well, if you didn't get the extremely devastated Byzantine spawn like I did, you probably didn't choose the extremely well developed Byzantine spawn either (with heavy lancers and heavy spearmen). I just made my life simpler.
And I got this spawn only after 3 tries (not like 10+ tries), which goes to show that there's really extreme variations in how things turn out for the Byzantines. (The other one that I didn't use was a horseman left in Constantinople--that, I felt, was even more of a cheap shot).
As I said to the Turk, cop-outs are good. This is the "strategy" section, not the "torture yourself needlessly" section. Rhye explicitly said he made anti-AP patches, maybe you should do the same.
AnotherPacifist
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I used ALL of the mercs as KoJ. Other civs, not so much (cash is like egg yolk--you burn it to grow your science).
I notice there are no siege weapons with mercs--now THOSE I would hire without a thought.
(I'm still playing with the "fastest virtual UHV" challenge in mind)
Me too, but I also want to get the highest possible score, which usually means the same thing tbh. Maybe we should start "the earliest UHVs with SoI" -thread soon..
I agree, but sometimes cities (and science) are better off building something else than units..
AnotherPacifist
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Can somebody clarify this for the Ottomans: if I liberate a conquered city (say in Hejaz) to a vassal who's nowhere close to it historically (in this case it was Cicilia), and in 1660 all cities belong either to me or to a vassal, does this fulfill the 3rd UHV for the Ottomans? (because I'm getting a little antsy seeing no checkmarks except for Thrace and Egypt right now...)
embryodead
Caliph
It should, but the progress tracking/UHV checks have changed in the last patch and weren't thoroughly tested yet - if you think you & your vassal should get all the checkmarks, please post a save in the main thread.
AnotherPacifist
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Get a lucky spawn with just 1 defender in Constantinople, and take a gamble that 3 horsemen (2 heavy horse archers first and 1 heavy lancer for the final kill) who can reach it during the first turn can capture Constantinople to make it your capital. (reminds me of the gambit that I took with 2 Spanish longbow and 1 swordsman against 1 proto-French crossbow in Bordeaux and Marseilles).
Vassalize the Karamanids and Armenian Cicilia if possible, but do it after essential infrastructure is built for maximal science.
Do not expand beyond 10-12 cities until matchlock is learned, then military drill. Then take a detour for city planning/civic architecture (Shalimar Gardens and Taj Mahal will greatly enhance your science for 12 turns).
Some turkoman barbs heavy horse archers will appear near Ankara, don't leave it undefended. Make it your Heroic Epic/military academy city (since it's the closest city to your future conquests that has good production). Build paved roads coming from Ankara.
Get the Mamluks ASAP after vassalizing the Armenians--don't let them ever get a horse hooked up for those Toassin Mamluks. While you're killing the Mamluks, pay Ak Koyunlu a non-military tech to attack the Safavids and/or Georgia (banking did it for me). Use Damascus as the launching pad for a second military base once you've mopped up Egypt and Hejaz--Ak Koyunlu usually vassalizes readily if you were nice to them before.
Then evict the Safavids from the Caucasus and Iraq and make peace.
Make sure you or your vassal have at least one city in each province you're expected to control (even if you control the land culturally, if you don't have a city in, say, Lesser Armenia, the 3rd UHV criteria won't count).
Vassalize the Karamanids and Armenian Cicilia if possible, but do it after essential infrastructure is built for maximal science.
Do not expand beyond 10-12 cities until matchlock is learned, then military drill. Then take a detour for city planning/civic architecture (Shalimar Gardens and Taj Mahal will greatly enhance your science for 12 turns).
Some turkoman barbs heavy horse archers will appear near Ankara, don't leave it undefended. Make it your Heroic Epic/military academy city (since it's the closest city to your future conquests that has good production). Build paved roads coming from Ankara.
Get the Mamluks ASAP after vassalizing the Armenians--don't let them ever get a horse hooked up for those Toassin Mamluks. While you're killing the Mamluks, pay Ak Koyunlu a non-military tech to attack the Safavids and/or Georgia (banking did it for me). Use Damascus as the launching pad for a second military base once you've mopped up Egypt and Hejaz--Ak Koyunlu usually vassalizes readily if you were nice to them before.
Then evict the Safavids from the Caucasus and Iraq and make peace.
Make sure you or your vassal have at least one city in each province you're expected to control (even if you control the land culturally, if you don't have a city in, say, Lesser Armenia, the 3rd UHV criteria won't count).
AnotherPacifist
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Oh absolutely: banking is only about 10 turns with a well developed economy, and boosts your stability/economy enormously. Just one bank in Constantinople and one in Izmir helped me go from -20g to + 30g at the same research rate.
Compass/Astronomy should be traded from either the Sindh (when they respawn), the Delhi Sultanate or even the Portuguese. They will do so after the wonder associated with Astronomy is built. Observatories help with research quite a bit.
AnotherPacifist
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OK, will somebody finally post a detailed Oman strategy so I can complete my UHV list (Ak Koyunlu and Oman are the only ones I haven't done yet--my Ak Koyunlu game got trashed when the Mamluks attacked in force).
Well, I only got a Guy de Lusignan, but here we go:
I started out building trebuchets. As soon as there were camel/horse archer mercenaries available I hired them and captured Al-Qatif (desert city on the southern shore of the persian gulf) and Siraf. I also sent three hired camels to capture Mekkah, but the suprisingly stable Fatimid snatched it from me at the last moment.
Come Mongol invasion and the usual chaos in Iran. I had managed to save the free wins against barbarians and got some good promotions. In the aftermath several cities were available for the picking and I captured Bam, Kerman, Yazd, Shiraz and Efeshan. This was the full extent of my territorial conquest.
At 1350 or so I started thinking about the conversion goal. I traded incense with Yemen (first converting them to sunni by bribing with a tech so they would trade) and built mosque, madrasa and library, which was enough to quickly attract the sufi (sufi missionaries can go through enemy territory and converting without needing open borders). As I had prioritized conquering southern Iran, I was late to the party in India and only three coastal cities were available. That was not a problem, however, as it is possible to safely sail to sinai and unload your sufis there. I got my last coastal conversions in Levant and Cilicia, but there were several more non-islamic cities in the remnants of the Byzantine Empire.
Throughout this period, my science was running at an abysmal 10-30%, with very little surplus.
Then came preparing for the portugses onslaught. I built Kizil Kule, Heroic Epic and Drydock in Masqat to produce one great galley/turn. Ormuz (with drydock) produced one every fourth turn. I built four stacks of about 8 great galleys each: outside Salalah, Sur, Straight of Hormuz and Al-Qatif respectively. Of the great galleys, 3-4 had barrage promotion to start out with, the rest normal combat promotion.
The inland cities in Iran produced marksmen en masse (with archery range and barracks), so all coastal cities were stocked up with 5-7 marksmen.
When the Portugese arrived the great galley stacks all managed to take out their respective carrack stack, so that amount should suffice. There were many galleys left over, but in the subsequent ways they managed to land their troops. But the promoted marksmen combined with castles leaves you plenty of time to ferry in reinforcement.
The critical tech to achieve the gold goal for me was banking. I was able to sell it to nearly every other civ, plus the banks themselves are nice. With market+bank+slave market+confectioner and every city running wealth I was netting 900 gold/turn. Afterwards, I ran some espionage concentrated on the Portugese to spot any cities. I placed units on the two-tile african island to stop any settlers from coming there and had naval patrol in the red sea, but they never tried to send settlers there.
I started out building trebuchets. As soon as there were camel/horse archer mercenaries available I hired them and captured Al-Qatif (desert city on the southern shore of the persian gulf) and Siraf. I also sent three hired camels to capture Mekkah, but the suprisingly stable Fatimid snatched it from me at the last moment.
Come Mongol invasion and the usual chaos in Iran. I had managed to save the free wins against barbarians and got some good promotions. In the aftermath several cities were available for the picking and I captured Bam, Kerman, Yazd, Shiraz and Efeshan. This was the full extent of my territorial conquest.
At 1350 or so I started thinking about the conversion goal. I traded incense with Yemen (first converting them to sunni by bribing with a tech so they would trade) and built mosque, madrasa and library, which was enough to quickly attract the sufi (sufi missionaries can go through enemy territory and converting without needing open borders). As I had prioritized conquering southern Iran, I was late to the party in India and only three coastal cities were available. That was not a problem, however, as it is possible to safely sail to sinai and unload your sufis there. I got my last coastal conversions in Levant and Cilicia, but there were several more non-islamic cities in the remnants of the Byzantine Empire.
Throughout this period, my science was running at an abysmal 10-30%, with very little surplus.
Then came preparing for the portugses onslaught. I built Kizil Kule, Heroic Epic and Drydock in Masqat to produce one great galley/turn. Ormuz (with drydock) produced one every fourth turn. I built four stacks of about 8 great galleys each: outside Salalah, Sur, Straight of Hormuz and Al-Qatif respectively. Of the great galleys, 3-4 had barrage promotion to start out with, the rest normal combat promotion.
The inland cities in Iran produced marksmen en masse (with archery range and barracks), so all coastal cities were stocked up with 5-7 marksmen.
When the Portugese arrived the great galley stacks all managed to take out their respective carrack stack, so that amount should suffice. There were many galleys left over, but in the subsequent ways they managed to land their troops. But the promoted marksmen combined with castles leaves you plenty of time to ferry in reinforcement.
The critical tech to achieve the gold goal for me was banking. I was able to sell it to nearly every other civ, plus the banks themselves are nice. With market+bank+slave market+confectioner and every city running wealth I was netting 900 gold/turn. Afterwards, I ran some espionage concentrated on the Portugese to spot any cities. I placed units on the two-tile african island to stop any settlers from coming there and had naval patrol in the red sea, but they never tried to send settlers there.
embryodead
Caliph
Oman
Other have posted good guides so from me only a few remarks:
- Salalah is part of Oman's core and has incense & horses required for the UU
- That crappy Civic, Merchant Capitalism, isn't as crappy combined with Oman's UP, UB and the fact that Oman/Salalah count as islands (overseas trade bonus)
- Portuguese can be defeated on land as well, esp. if you have surplus gold...
Other have posted good guides so from me only a few remarks:
- Salalah is part of Oman's core and has incense & horses required for the UU
- That crappy Civic, Merchant Capitalism, isn't as crappy combined with Oman's UP, UB and the fact that Oman/Salalah count as islands (overseas trade bonus)
- Portuguese can be defeated on land as well, esp. if you have surplus gold...
AnotherPacifist
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Castles are useless against cannons and arqubusiers, no?
Merchant capitalism comes so late that it's practically useless especially for warring civs.
Embryodead, I mean the greatest respect when I say: Oman is like RFC's Mali without the floodplains and double the amount of war...which makes it a fairly unsatisfying civ to play. Anyway, gold hoarding is always a pain in the ass.
Merchant capitalism comes so late that it's practically useless especially for warring civs.
Embryodead, I mean the greatest respect when I say: Oman is like RFC's Mali without the floodplains and double the amount of war...which makes it a fairly unsatisfying civ to play. Anyway, gold hoarding is always a pain in the ass.
AnotherPacifist
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OK, so I think the following are going to make the Ak Koyunlu a LOT easier:
--the Fatimids are still alive (i.e. don't have Mamluks to deal with and Fatimids can be easily collapsed), and Cilicia is still alive (i.e. you don't have Ottomans right next door).
--you have at least the following cities untouched (i.e. not razed by barbs): Mosul, Nisibis or Mardin (Nisibis is better), Ar-Raqqah. Mahabad is optional (you'll just build catapults from it anyway to help capture Shirvan) but the city north of it (Maragheh) is crucial (the horse must be hooked up right away)
--barb cities in Iraq--I had a lot of rebel cities which slowed down how quickly I captured the Iraq cities, and they had a lot of doubly promoted troops from having successfully repelled the Mongols.
Civics have to include serfdom (no choice because there's so much land to improve). Start with monarchy for happiness (since you'll have a lot of other religions in your cities), OR, and if possible, trade for economics (I couldn't but it's doable in some cases). Later on, once you have more than 6 cities, go to empire and theocracy (after barracks are built).
Nisibis builds Heroic Epic (certainly much helped by an unpillaged and hooked up marble quarry near Mosul!) in 4 turns, and churns out catapult, trebuchets and heavy horse archers (the only unit quick enough to traverse the empire).
Raze everything in Kurdistan (I stupidly kept Qazvin which eventually flipped to the Safavids) and keep only 1 city in Shirvan (which will eventually flip to the Safavids).
Pre-build settlers and settle Kermanshah (excellent production with a size 4 starting city with barracks) AFTER the Safavids spawn.
Capture Rayy (Tehran), Esfahan and Hamadan (which will NOT flip to the Safavids).
Right now I'm in 1480 and enjoying my golden age, but I'm actively preparing for the Safavids.
Addendum: won in 1543--vassalized the Safavids after capturing all required territory (left them with part of Azerbaijan but was careful to found a city blocking the rest of Tabaristan from them), Kerman captured from the Ghaznavids (still alive), and then captured Siraz from the Portuguese when they least expected it (only had 2 heavy infantry in it against my 9 heavy horse archers).
Important was that Ottomans never declared war (they were involved most of the time with other wars such as Cicilia and Georgia). Did I mention I switched to Sunni?
--the Fatimids are still alive (i.e. don't have Mamluks to deal with and Fatimids can be easily collapsed), and Cilicia is still alive (i.e. you don't have Ottomans right next door).
--you have at least the following cities untouched (i.e. not razed by barbs): Mosul, Nisibis or Mardin (Nisibis is better), Ar-Raqqah. Mahabad is optional (you'll just build catapults from it anyway to help capture Shirvan) but the city north of it (Maragheh) is crucial (the horse must be hooked up right away)
--barb cities in Iraq--I had a lot of rebel cities which slowed down how quickly I captured the Iraq cities, and they had a lot of doubly promoted troops from having successfully repelled the Mongols.
Civics have to include serfdom (no choice because there's so much land to improve). Start with monarchy for happiness (since you'll have a lot of other religions in your cities), OR, and if possible, trade for economics (I couldn't but it's doable in some cases). Later on, once you have more than 6 cities, go to empire and theocracy (after barracks are built).
Nisibis builds Heroic Epic (certainly much helped by an unpillaged and hooked up marble quarry near Mosul!) in 4 turns, and churns out catapult, trebuchets and heavy horse archers (the only unit quick enough to traverse the empire).
Raze everything in Kurdistan (I stupidly kept Qazvin which eventually flipped to the Safavids) and keep only 1 city in Shirvan (which will eventually flip to the Safavids).
Pre-build settlers and settle Kermanshah (excellent production with a size 4 starting city with barracks) AFTER the Safavids spawn.
Capture Rayy (Tehran), Esfahan and Hamadan (which will NOT flip to the Safavids).
Right now I'm in 1480 and enjoying my golden age, but I'm actively preparing for the Safavids.
Addendum: won in 1543--vassalized the Safavids after capturing all required territory (left them with part of Azerbaijan but was careful to found a city blocking the rest of Tabaristan from them), Kerman captured from the Ghaznavids (still alive), and then captured Siraz from the Portuguese when they least expected it (only had 2 heavy infantry in it against my 9 heavy horse archers).
Important was that Ottomans never declared war (they were involved most of the time with other wars such as Cicilia and Georgia). Did I mention I switched to Sunni?
AnotherPacifist
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OK, I finally have a good Omani game going. The key was Salalah being built by Yemen, and they declared war on me, which gave me some heavy infantry and marksmen. Together with all the available mercenaries, I captured all of Yemen, Mecca and Shiraz.
Beeline straight for banking (except for a detour to stern rudder). Guilds can be traded from somebody, thankfully (I think it was Malwa). Built both Kizil Kule and Grand Bazaar.
In 1500 I had 57 great galleys, 20000g and generating 500g/turn. Now for the onslaught with the upgraded carracks...
Addendum: hit GA in 1557, still at war with Portuguese (since Africa still has some barb cities, and I have a fleet waiting there).
Won with Guy de Lusignan too (is there any other choice?).
I can finally say--I've won UHVs with Sultan for all of the civs. I don't think I want to even try Caliph for Oman. lol
Beeline straight for banking (except for a detour to stern rudder). Guilds can be traded from somebody, thankfully (I think it was Malwa). Built both Kizil Kule and Grand Bazaar.
In 1500 I had 57 great galleys, 20000g and generating 500g/turn. Now for the onslaught with the upgraded carracks...
Addendum: hit GA in 1557, still at war with Portuguese (since Africa still has some barb cities, and I have a fleet waiting there).
Won with Guy de Lusignan too (is there any other choice?).
I can finally say--I've won UHVs with Sultan for all of the civs. I don't think I want to even try Caliph for Oman. lol
