My custom civ - Project Discussion

Don't uber units generally have magic resistance or magic immunity of some sort? I know dragons do. Also, the spell is pretty weak on the start (until you get about 5 nodes it is worthless in essence).



But even so, when are you going to have 10 nodes total in the first place? I newer managed to get 10 mana total (including palace mana) in my games unless I get a lot of wonders and unique improvements.

But I will probably have to implement either a progressive decrees (like 10% per mana until 70% and than 5% per mana until 80% and than 1% per mana over that) or a max targets hit. And I don't know if it is possible but it would be good to exclude super units (Auric Ascended, Dragons, Unique Units, Heroes, etc.)

What about like the effect of Mind 3 that increses the enemy magic resistance when facing this spell? How would that work out exatcly?


The thing is that I definitively want Blaze 3 to be a uber spell. Sort of like the level 3 Death Summon. It represents the pinnacle of fire magic. So I don't want to limit it to be unable to kill completely as it would, well make it just another worthless AOE spell.

Like, what is the point of having an arch mage do what any AV priest can do. And what is the incentive to use it when you can get a fireball (13 strenth by that time) to just mop the stack up via coleteral damage.


2.) setting all enemy cities afire, done by a unique building (like 'Burning Houses') for a certain amount of rounds decreasing all values (like productivity, growth) and giving chance for losing buildings? or only decreasing food on a large scale, burning their food amounts
Recruitment is out of the question (too Banor) but this I like.
Some sort of Damage Over Time version of Worldbreak. Like a flaming Blight.


PS. I always hated dispell. It is just cheap. Like how you can get the Tower victory with it.
But I understand what you are saying all to well. It could be extremely imbalanced. It's just breaking my hearth as I wanted a spell that scales with mana.
 
if you want it for the killing effect give it a max target and leave it this way. or even increase it depending on the max target number, if it has max target 1 or 2, even 20% per node would be still acceptable (so i think) and its "i bend my finger this way and it turnes you into ashes"-spell
if ure able to get it that other way (less % per node at higher numbers) it would be great, too.
 
Wouldn't it be much easier to have it cause a set amount of damage (<100%) to a limit of 100%? At least that's how it's done for most other spells without a damage cap.

To make the spell both more balanced and more interesting you could make it 5% per fire node to a cap of 60% (to calculate the damage caused by a single cast).
 
Wouldn't it be much easier to have it cause a set amount of damage (<100%) to a limit of 100%? At least that's how it's done for most other spells without a damage cap.

To make the spell both more balanced and more interesting you could make it 5% per fire node to a cap of 60% (to calculate the damage caused by a single cast).

But 60% is even less than the original (70%).
Or did you mean something like: 0% + 5% per fire mana (max at 60%) to 100% damage?


My main issue is how to make a spell that is both flavorful, fun, balanced and justified to cast compared to the others, considering that by that time you will be wielding :strength: 13 Fireballs and :strength: 16 Fire elementals as valid alternatives.


PS. Thank you all for your input. It is greatly appretiated just so you know.
 
I realized that I was being unclear, that's why I added the sentence in brackets, apparently it didn't help. :lol:


I meant something like this: Blaze 3 causes X% damage to a limit of 100%

X = fire nodes x 5% but =< 60%

Basically this means that casting the spell twice or trice will kill unless your targets has a fast healing speed, it may even kill uber units and 50 unit stacks. But it doesn't kill instantly and hence gives the other side time to react, to run away, kill the caster, etc. Addirionally it will also make switching your mana nodes more difficult since you have to maintain the fire nodes until your target is dead.
 
Yea, that is what I thought. I will probably go with something like that.
 
I know, but on the other hand the alternatives are so good :strength: 13 Fireballs and :strength: 16 Fire elementals that I need something to justify using it instead of the two.

It's not like either is not going to instant gib almost any unit in the game save for dragons and Auric... And they have coleteral damage (stack attack).


So far Torugu has the best solution in my oppinion.


So... well you are the god of all that is Modding. Any ideas?
I would like to keep the stack attack effect if at all possible as it is quite different from all the other widely available spells. But the rest is up for change.
 
Just to give an update.
The Affinity system is in.
Now all I need to do before I hit 0.5 is the art for the Marksman UU, the Adept, Archmage and High Priest and the 2 unique spells (Blaze 3 and Blaze 2 + Divine).


Also, does anyone have any idea what to do with the Mage model? It is the core of my Civ quite literally.
 
Well quite honestly there are a lot of things that collapse at the Huge size. Like the memory requirements and CTDs for a start.
But I don't really see it happening unless they go for something silly like Huge Map, 6 Civs.

I mean, a 18 Civs Huge map does not really have that much more space per player than a medium size 8 players (or what ever is the default for medium maps) one does it?


I can't balance it around huge maps. I am balancing around Normal Size 8 Civs. But if all else fails I will make it scall with map size.
I'm playing RifE, wild mana option, on a small map, 8 players. I killed 2 players and already have more than 12 nodes. I have 1 untaped node to make a metamagic node.

With your proposal, I would have half mana nodes be creation mana until I have 4 archmages with your pillar of flame spell. I'll then dispell 10 nodes to make them fire node (in case some guy has a magic resitance promotion).
I'll raze entire civ with only those guys plus som few guardians to protect them.
any unit, any hero, even with 25:strength: will die by my hand.
I won't care if my cities all lose 4 population (10 creation mana less is 5 pop less in :health: and as they consumme :food: it is only 3-4 less pop) I already have my overwhelming army.
IMO it is OP.

Any spell that deals % damage and is not capped (can kill) is OP for me.

A 13:strength: fireball ... you can brush it away : crossbow + flame arrow + iron weapons, in a city, + drill + combat or CD + defense from ...etc the fireball makes ... puff. And if you have an axeman with guardian, the 13:strength: fireball kill only the guardian and is wasted on a 6 :strength: unit instead of killing a realy strong unit that would have lost.
a 16 :strength: elemental : at best it kills only 1 unit + some collateral damage. If you have 10-20 units.. you don't care about the elemental. You'll take your loss and kill the other attackers. And if you have an earth elemental with few earth nodes, or a Sun 3 summon with some sun mana, or maybe only a phalanx with enough promo or even mithril weapons.. puff goes the elemental !

even a 30%damage uncapped is OP... it means your 4 archmages can kill all warriors in 1 turn, casting each after the other, but they also kill each hero in 1 turn, every longbow... every units !!! independantly of the life of the unit ! and all the units of the stack !
 
thats what ive been trying to tell him for posts now...if he wants to keep the hard killing killing (aka not capped) and the stack effect it will be op.

stack damage is okay, as long as it doesnt kill and doesnt do too much damage,
killing damage is okay, as long as it has a limited max target.

i think ure exaggerating the effects of fire elementals and fire balls. they can be badass, but at that time u already have stuff to defend. and they never kill a whole stack of units.
 
Dam... I guess I will just scrap the whole thing and copy the regular Pillar of Fire.

At the Altar of the blaze I lay down my dreams. I hope it is worth it.
 
no, you can make it almost the same :

fire 5 units, 10%per mana node until 60% ; capped at 70%
It means the ennemy units will be heavily weakened if you have many fire nodes but you'll still need enough mopping units to kill them all.

Or you can do it your way and play test it instead of "theory-test it" :D
 
Well either way it's the same.
I wanted a stack killing spell that would be IMBA if plaid properly but would be hard to get into the state where it is IMBA.

It's my whole idea. Since I think that no Civ/Unit/spell should ever be balanced with others at all. Instead, all things should be horribly imbalanced and overpowered and the only thing keeping the balance should be the fact that nothing is more horribly imbalanced than the rest.

That and that a player should not fight against horribly broken stuff but seek it out and use it to his benefit. And that a good player is one who can find and exploit imbalances to the best of their abilities.



I am the kind of player who hates any and all balance patches for games, who things that Acheron in base FFH was just right when he had infinite spawning SOI to back him etc.


But I have to give that up on this mod as it is not what the people would consider fun to play.
 
But I have to give that up on this mod as it is not what the people would consider fun to play.

in the end its your mod, dont forget that :)
if you want it that way at all costs - leave it that way! its important to stick to your ideas in first place (although you shouldnt totally ignore what others say watching the whole...)
people will still play your mod. were just givings tipps for balance. dont be demoralized.
 
well, maybe you could keep it imba as it is but make it cost more...

Make it a chance to "fail" equal to the %damage (or half that = ex 50% chances if one has 10 fire nodes).
when it fails, the unit stack is burnt as usual but the archmage loses the blazeIII promotion. (as a failed domination) and a barbarian fire elemental with strong, mobilityI, combat promo (1 per 20%damage) and some :strength: (maybe normal +1per fire mana the player has) is spawned on a tile nearby the archmage.
(maybe first invoque the elemental as the players so he gets the accurate affinity, then turn him barb)
=> it means the fire went out of control.

hence, the guy has to retake the promotion to recast.
and if he has only few nodes, his promotion has most chances to stay with him and if the fire goes out of control, it is easier to stop) If he has many nodes, there are more risks that the fire goes out of control and creats a big elemental.
 
ive been thinking about the world spell once more, especially about that damage over time thing. what do you think of this:

Sea of Flames
Gives all enemy(?), not fire resistent or immune, units the - lets call it so for the moment - "Prom5"-Promotion.

Now, youll do 5 different promotions

"Prom5"
100% chance to turn off each round
damages the unit for 15% when ending
-30% str
adds the Prom4 Promotion when ending
"Prom4"
100% chance to turn off each round
damages the unit for 25% when ending
-25% str
adds the Prom3 Promotion when ending
"Prom3"
100% chance to turn off each round
damages the unit for 30% when ending
-20% str
adds the Prom2 Promotion when ending
"Prom2"
100% chance to turn off each round
damages the unit for 35-40% when ending
-15% str
adds the Prom1 Promotion when ending
"Prom1" i would call it "Marked by Fire"/"Firemark" or something like this
does not end unless dispelled (-> dispelable)
-10% str

so basically its a world wide damage over time leaving the units weakened and increasing in damage over the four rounds.

furthermore it could spread "flames"-features (those ones spawning over hell terrain too, and beeing impassable for non-fireresistent units) over the map for a while, escpecially on food improvements.

as always, just a suggestion, but id like to hear your feedback :)
 
it would mean all units in the world may die unless :
-in a city (as the total is 105-110% damage) and a city heals 10-25%/turn or more if there is a herbalist
-units stops to move and tries to heal "on foot"...
might survive be still be diminished,
-magic immune.
-fire resistant (The clan of Ember would become overpowerful for those 4 turns).

not a bad idea IMO
 
it would mean all units in the world may die unless :
-in a city (as the total is 105-110% damage) and a city heals 10-25%/turn or more if there is a herbalist
-units stops to move and tries to heal "on foot"...
might survive be still be diminished,
-magic immune.
-fire resistant (The clan of Ember would become overpowerful for those 4 turns).
not a bad idea IMO
yeah, tried to have the numbers that way so it kills unless you activly do something against, while it is far away from beeing impossible to survive it, in fact its rather easy.
didnt thought of the orcs. mhhh. from the lore i think its okay, but from game balance... difficult to say.
a lightning side-effect could be added for them.

lets see what PPQ_Purple thinks about it.
 
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