Rise of Asia

ShiroKobbure said:
I want to have all the UUs done by the 31st so I need to know what I need to make.
Suggestions for UUs:
Taprobane some kind of Advanced Archer
Gangahrd[Bangladesh] elephant unit?
Sakya Gurka type with Keris (?)
Kushan Empire(Ashvaka/Spearman) = Ashvaka Lancer is a horse unit.
Srivijaya[Malysia] naval unit would reflect civ character
Sailendra[Java] Bugi-man to replace warrior
Funan[Cambodia] female Royal Guard

mapwork on my PC has been delayed while I sort out a temperature issue that means I can only work about half an hour on it. I expect to have the problem solved in about a week.
 
The civ specific wonder mentioned above seems like a good idea for creating character and different abilities between the civs.
Ogedei_the_Mad said:
4) Tibet's UU should be the Khampa Horsemen. No corny stereotypes, and no warrior monks, please. :p :p Why some people would give Tibet a warrior monk UU is beyond my comprehension. :crazyeye:
Can you please explain why it would be so unforgivable to give Tibet Warrior Monk units?
 
7ronin said:
This is interesting. How exactly would you go about it? Looking at the editor gives the impression that these are hard coded and that the eight strengths they give you can't be changed.
You can't change the names that are shown in the editor, but you can change the names that occur in the game. Do a search for "Agricultural" and so on in the script.txt and Civilopedia.txt files, and replace as appropriate.

You can't change the basic effects of the traits, but you can change which buildings are flagged what*, and you can change the free unit that Exp civs get.


* Some traits get half price on "their" city improvements, some don't. I believe it's Rel, Agr, Sea, Sci, and Mil that gets the discount, while Exp, Com, and Ind doesn't, but I may be misremembering.
 
Rambuchan said:
Can you please explain why it would be so unforgivable to give Tibet Warrior Monk units?

First off, it'd be an over-used stereotype ("Bulletproof Monk" anyone?). The West frequently associates Tibet with wise mystical peaceful mountain lamas, viewing it with a sort of "New Age" orientalism where Buddhist monks are somehow the pure essence of Tibetan culture. Tibet was historically a real regional power and even a threat to its mighty Chinese neighbor. Giving Tibet a stereotypical UU instead of one that reflects its era of regional power ignores what Tibetans were capable of. And what would be more insulting to Tibet by ignoring a time when it was at its height of power?

Secondly, Warrior Monks are NOT unique to Tibet. They also appear in Japanese history (known as Sohei or Yamabushi), and (to a much lesser extent) in China as well.
 
I can understand your views there Ogedei. You've made good points. So what's your suggested alternative from Tibet's times as a regional power?
 
Rambuchan said:
I can understand your views there Ogedei. You've made good points. So what's your suggested alternative from Tibet's times as a regional power?

As I said earlier: the Khampa Horsemen - some of the fiercest warriors ever to come down from the Tibetan highlands. They were from the Kham region and were famous for being tough-as-nails warriors, often employed by Tibetan monarchs when the kingdom would send campaigns against rival states or against China. :)
 
Forget my scen, my question has nothing to do with it. More a general question about this significant Asian power. As for the Khampa Horsemen, yes I saw that earlier and forgot.

As you were gents :mischief:

EDIT: Actually part of the reason I asked is because of the way it was suggested NOT to use Warrior Monks. I know Ogedei suggested an alternative earlier but when I see things like: "they still shouldnt be given warrior monks" in other instances, it doesn't give folk a good idea of what else to do. Point is: If you think it's a bad idea, explain yourself so that other alternatives can be found and used (like Ogedei did). Especially helpful on boards which do not cater much to these regions.
 
Photos taken in 20-40s show Tibet as a kingdom with warriors often like this.

Celebrations show Tibets warrior past.


2 articles on Tibetian warriors.
http://www.skidmore.edu/academics/asianstudies/TibetanPhotos/MonlamArmy.html
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=10395&t=1&c=1

The reason why warrior monks arent good for Tibet is because Tibet was buddhist, but most East Asian civs were. Now you think Tibet as only being peaceful buddhists because now they are a colony of China, and the only thing not illegal in Tibet is being peaceful buddhists. Usually in issolation. If Tibet was its own country it would have a military like everyone else.
 
Assuming that the game ends circa 1900, here is a straw man tech tree for the industrial age. I have approached this from the standpoint that as civilization advances things tend to be less regional specific and more world oriented in general. Lost of room in this one for changes and or additions as desired. One of the two biplane fighters should be "biplane bomber."
 
That Tech tree looks familiar :mischief:

I’m going to just slap down some ideas and thought fodder for you guys. I’ve seen my Mozilla crash once with it all drafted out. I hope I can include the same detail again. These could be used as Techs, Wonders, Improvements and even may inspire certain units. Up to you how or if you use them. They all relate to the later period of the mod.

- Opium: ~ something, anything to do with Opium! Here are some later specifics you may find you want to focus on:

- ‘The Canton Laws’ which directly led to the first Opium War. Wiki rightly says: “The Canton System served as a means for China to control trade within their own country. Despite Chinese efforts to keep European traders and citizens within the area of Macao, European trade spread throughout China and threatened to virtually take over the country through the practice of Sphere of Influence imperalism. The Canton System limited the ports to which the British traders could bring in goods to China. It also forbid any direct trading between British merchants and Chinese civilians; instead, the British merchants had to trade with the Chinese merchants, who then would sell those goods to the Chinese people”. Searches for commissioner Lin Zexu and Lord Napier will throw up good info.

- ‘Opium Agents’. My term for the multitude of foreign ‘agents’ (illegal merchants basically) who plied the British / Indian opium trade into China. Indians and South East Asians were all involved.

- ‘Treaty of Nanjing’ ~ (ending the first Opium War, 2nd August 1842).

- ‘Unequal Treaties’ ~ That of Nanjing was the first of many which seriously affected China’s well fair.

- Satya Graha: ~ (literally ‘Truth Force’, basically ‘Self Rule’.) This phrase and idea was made most famous by Mahatma Gandhi, but it was growing before his time. In 1885, the Indian National Congress was formed. In 1906, the All India Muslim League was formed to promote feelings of loyalty to the British and advance Muslim political interests. In 1916, the Lucknow Pact was signed, uniting the Congress and the League in demanding for greater self-government. It is denied by the British. 1920-Gandhi launches a non-violent, non-cooperation movement, or Satyagraha, against the British for a free India. I have shed loads more on this if you want it.

- Terrorism ~ (or at least the ideology behind our terrorism today). It seems that, even in today’s world in which we are supposed to crap our pants about terrorism, many seem to forget that it was in British India (and later British Egypt) that the heady mix of religion and terrorism came together. If you search for Maulana Maudoodi or Khilafat Movement you’ll get loads on this. He lived in the earlier part of the 20th century and was the one who really kick started the idea of faith being a powerful weapon in itself, at least in its modern context.

- Jizya ~ (poll tax): Imposed on non-Muslims in India under various rulers. Significant political device in Indian history through your period this one.

- ‘The Peacock Throne’ ~ I know you don’t have the Mughals in but why not? Or something similar.
 
Rambuchan said:
- Terrorism ~ (or at least the ideology behind our terrorism today). It seems that, even in today’s world in which we are supposed to crap our pants about terrorism, many seem to forget that it was in British India (and later British Egypt) that the heady mix of religion and terrorism came together. If you search for Maulana Maudoodi or Khilafat Movement you’ll get loads on this. He lived in the earlier part of the 20th century and was the one who really kick started the idea of faith being a powerful weapon in itself, at least in its modern context.
Would these be the "Deobandi scholars", or whatever they're called in English?
 
Afaik the Deobandi scholars were different and earlier from Maudoodi's gang. I'm not sure if there was that much of a correlation between the two schools. Common elements were their rejection of western imperialism and occupation. Maudoodi would have doubtless shared the same goal but perhaps by different means (not sure). In fact, Deobandi thought would maybe more appropriate to this mod's time period as such thinkers were around in the mid-19th century. But I'm not so up on those boys.


PS. I meant to give out this link in my first attempt at the post above. Forgot it in the crash:

METROPOLITAN MUSEUM'S GLOBAL WORLD HISTORY TIME LINE

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hm/09/ea/hm09ea.htm

BOOKMARK IT NOW DEAR MODDER!!!


I find that site to be Pure Gold for modding. Those timelines run from the dawn of time to today, covering the whole world. Great for cultural insights, historical overviews and some aesthetic reference points. Gold.
 
Rambuchan said:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hm/09/ea/hm09ea.htm

I find that site to be Pure Gold for modding. Those timelines run from the dawn of time to today, covering the whole world. Great for cultural insights, historical overviews and some aesthetic reference points. Gold.

This is indeed a great site - lot's of inspiration (I've been mining it for my own mod which continues to ooze along). I highly recommend that everyone take a look the Metmuseum site before we get too far along.
 
Rambuchan said:
PS. I meant to give out this link in my first attempt at the post above. Forgot it in the crash:

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hm/09/ea/hm09ea.htm

I find that site to be Pure Gold for modding. Those timelines run from the dawn of time to today, covering the whole world. Great for cultural insights, historical overviews and some aesthetic reference points. Gold.
What a blessing! I bookmarked it instantly. I don't know how I've missed that in all my web-crawling looking for South Asian resources. Consider editing your post to name it explicitly in all-caps bold, in case some speed browser misses it.
 
I thought some contrasting orange and blue text, a little bolding and a size change would do the trick for you (and of course others) Blue Monkey :)
 
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