UU&UB or UU&UU elimination thread

seancolorado said:

Just to play devil's advocate, couldn't you argue that any unique unit not requiring horses gives you the option of selling your horses (assuming you don't want to use chariots or horsemen in the first place). And also, if you simply don't have a game where you are building the temple and/or haven't yet reached the tech that unlocks temple then isn't that the same as allowing you to field more units? I don't know, your last point about speed is the only one I can get behind.

Click to expand...

Well, good question! Other Uniques do give you this advantage, but the war elephants speed (or lack thereof) makes it a more defensive unit, and the the hunnic Horse archer, while better, lacks some of that speed (but makes up for it in terrain movement) is a much better city attacker than a defensive unit. I say the chariot archer is good for quick, precision strikes at the enemy, using (in this case) numbers and strength to make up for their fragility. And as for the burial tomb arguement, you could say that about not building any building then, that it allows you to build a bigger army. But here, you can still maintain your infrastructure AND get a quick big army, also having faith in that era is VITAL. As well, the +2 happiness works well on defense (+1 culture for two happiness, AND +10% gold production) and keeps you in the green on offense.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 24
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 7
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 19
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 7
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 10
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 27
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Greece: boring unit is still boring. When picking a new civ, it's never "oh! Hoplites are fun!" Fireaxis, think of some more original units!
Egypt: neat building. It's free and it gives happiness.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 24
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 7
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 7
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 10
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 27
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Byzantium: dromon are just sick and cataphracts aren't as great but in the fall of rome they come in handy and in the regular are good too if you know how to use them.

Germany: Landskecnt I don't cheapness that great I don't buy very often. The panzer is good but it just comes and goes so quickly.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 24
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 8
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 19
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 5
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 10
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 27
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Egypt: Hey there, hotshot. Did I ever tell you how much happiness my burial tomb gives?

Greece: Too little, too early, no flavour throughout the game.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 24
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 8
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 6
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 10
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 8
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 27
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

+Greece: not too bad... Hoplite for an early rush and wiping out encampments to get a good relationship with city-states, while CC has really fast movements and a long life-span.

-Polynesia: Here comes a combination that really sucks. Maori Warriors are not strong enough to have an early rush and they get obsolete quickly. Moai improvements take up a lot of good coastal tiles. I'd rather build trading posts or farms.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 25
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 8
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 6
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 8
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 27
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Japan: Just got finished with my first game playing Japan, and their UUs just didn't help me at all. Let me preface by saying I know I made some pretty big mistakes in the beginning of the game which had nothing to do with the UUs (unhappiness and debt plagued my administration), and I look forward to giving Japan another shot after I try out some different civs (I've only played as 12 of them so far). First of all, I had no iron whatsoever (despite being ranked 3rd in Land Demographic) so building Samurai was impossible. I made an attempt to trade the AI for it but I was horribly in debt and didn't have many luxury resources to spare. I hate the idea of a UU being dependent on resources; I think they should be exempt. I didn't even make it to the age of the Zero, as I was triple-teamed by America, Austria, and Arabia (the AAAxis of evil) and roflstomped out of the game, but fighters are units I rarely build anyways, and I'm sure they require oil to build which I'd much rather use for bombers, ships, and tanks.

China: As stated in my previous post, they're still my favorite UU/UB I've played with thus far. An early science-producing building and a badass ranged unit with no resource dependency = total win.

So this thread still lives on...

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 25
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 8
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 7
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 8
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 25
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Spain: Knight replacements I prefer to the Conquistador: Camel Archer, Naresuan's Elephant, Keshik and Mandekalu Cavalry*. That's literally every Knight replacement. Musketman replacements I prefer to the Tercio: Minuteman, Musketeer and Janissary. Again, literally all of 'em. Now, time to wait for the Spain lovers who frequent elimination threads to return and +1 their beloved UUs.

Greece: For a thread that never ends I'm not doing much to help it by upvoting the lowest ranked UU combo, but I would be lying to myself if I said I didn't truly appreciate them. For this it's not so much about the UUs but the time period. I always struggle in the early game (post-patch) as my army is typically weaker than other civs and am I often forced to go to war by more than one civ at a time. I've played with Greece only once post-patch but man did it feel like a breeze (in comparison to my failed post-patch experiences with Polynesia, Iroquois and Netherlands). Companion Cavalry with more strength, movement AND produces GGs makes it without question a top 3 unit of its time (maybe...I'd have to actually see a list of units of that time...). Hoplite is the lesser of the two but with raging barbarians and annoying civs lurking on your borders they clean up pretty damn well.

*only prefer when UA is taken into account (triple gold, war canoe & amphibious)

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 25
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 17
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 8
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 6
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 8
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 25
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Denmark: Great unique units for Medieval and Renaissance era. you can handle many enemies easily.

Greece: Hoplites might be good against early enemies but in late game they have nothing. companion cavalry must be a joke.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 25
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 17
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 9
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 23
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 4
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 8
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 25
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Greece- The units are ok but not strong enough over their replacements and obsolete too quickly.
Egypt- IIRC (have not played them in G&k yet as I just got it) the war chariot is resourceless. Pretty awesome actually to have super fast archer replacements. Burial tomb is a nice UB.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 25
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 17
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 9
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 24
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 4
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 8
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

+England: Extra range on the crossbowman is simply amazing. It makes promoting even easier and makes your initial gatling guns much more effective. They are probably as nasty as the Chu-Ko-Nu on defense. SotL is a mean killing machine. As long as you have iron, if you beat everyone to Navigation, you will own the seas with absolutely no competition.

-Spain: Don't understand the love Spain is getting. I don't feel these units deserve the position they are earning. Tercio combat bonus is minimal and everyone raves over its bonus versus mounted while dismissing units that receive the same bonus. So many times have I seen people argue that mounted units are normally not a threat, so then why is this bonus so important? Huge extra sight on the Conquistador is cool, but settling just doesn't seem like a great tactical advantage. If I'm building a UU, I want it to be a UU with bonuses I will be keeping around, not being consumed to found a city on another continent - a move that is typically risky to begin with. Unless the Conquistador can settle a single city without being consumed; then that would be impressive.

America: B17, Minuteman 24
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 21
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 14
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 21
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 16
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 26
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 17
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 9
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 24
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 24
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 23
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 17
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 4
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 16
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 13
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 15
Japan: Samurai, Zero 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 25
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 23
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 22
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 18
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 23
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 6
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 16
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 16
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 22
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Polynesia: UU is obsolete after turn 1. Moai's benefit is counter-productive. If you are on the coast, you need every land tile possible, since ocean's 2 food 1 gold isn't enough to support tall cities. And if you are going wide, your policy costs will be screwed over. By the time you have surplus to abuse Moai's, Great Artist's will begin popping.

China: One of the few Civs where every bonus is huge. 30% twice-attacking Xbows whose upkeep cost is paid for by a science building you will have in every city.