What language does Ramessess II speak?
- Thread starter Randarkmaan
- Start date
CultureManiac
Prince
From About.com:
The word SET has the most definitions of any word in the English language. SET has 464 definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary. Here's how the others stack up:
RUN - 396 (defs.)
GO - 368
TAKE - 343
STAND - 334
GET - 289
TURN - 288
PUT - 268
FALL - 264
STRIKE - 250
Now that's A LOT of definitions. Wonder if there's one in there I don't know ...
Kimuyama
Prince
I understood perfectly what they said, it sounded a bit Norwegian to me
St. Willibrord
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 4
Has anyone else noticed that Wu Zetian is speaking conversational modern Mandarin Chinese? Which does not bear a particularly close resemblance to the Chinese spoken during the Tang dynasty? I can't help but feel that the developers sort of halfassed their research in this area...of course it's still a good deal more authentic than the diplomacy dialogue in Civ 4.
I havent seen any other videos of them than the ones on ciV official site. But its not surprising, they didnt really try to make them real
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Still, I'd argue that a modern off-shoot of an ancient language is far more reasonable than a different language that has replaced the previous language as the dominant language. For instance, I don't have a problem with Elizabeth speaking modern English (with modern pronunciation). I wouldn't mind Alexander speaking modern Greek. I'd have a problem with Hiawatha speaking English because that's the dominant language of upstate New York today.
lifelessgamer
Chieftain
I have all leaders speeches saved on my pc save for Ramkhamhaeng. I could put them up but I don't know if I'm allowed to and I don't know how.........
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Probably not allowed to. How large are they, you could possibly e-mail them to interested participants? 
Probably not allowed to. How large are they, you could possibly e-mail them to interested participants?
Yes, you could @lifelessgamer
lifelessgamer
Chieftain
They're approximately all approximately 2MB large. So will e-mailing them work?
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Probably. Although, at this point, I think I personally will just wait (they were probably taken down for tweaking anyway and it's not like I'll get much use out of them).
Reddawg151
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 12
I just spent a long while reading through this whole thread and thought I really should comment to lay some of this to rest. I speak Arabic, both Egyptian and Classical/Modern Standard, as well as English (obviously).
Ramses is speaking what is called Egyptian Arabic. It is a dialect of Arabic, which originated in the Arabic peninsula, and is a Semitic language of the larger Afro-Asiatic family.
Ramses actually would have spoken Egyptian, a member of the Egyptian branch of the Afro-Asiatic family.
They are not the same language, nor is one a modern version of the other. Being in the same family doesn't make them sound the same (at all)-- languages like German, Persian, English, French, and Spanish are all in the same family (Indo-European) and you probably realize how different they are.
Having Ramses here speak Egyptian Arabic truly is akin to having Caesar speak Italian. Coptic would have been the best choice, it is also within the group of Egyptian languages like ancient Egyptian, and we know how to speak that as well as we do Latin or Nahuatl.
Also, about the lack of vowels in the writing-- it is not that vowels are unimportant or unstressed, rather that it allows fewer letters to be needed to write down the word, so it is simpler. You don't need vowels really-- I bet you can read this sentence without them: "Wh wnts hmbrgrs nd frnch frs fr dnnr?"
I don't think the choice to use Egyptian Arabic ruins the game or anything, and I don't know if it was done out of ignorance or what, but it's too bad. It would have sounded nicer in Egyptian (re-created) or Coptic.
And just so you know, Harun Ar-Rashid speaks Classical Arabic in his videos, which is fully appropriate and well done.
Ramses is speaking what is called Egyptian Arabic. It is a dialect of Arabic, which originated in the Arabic peninsula, and is a Semitic language of the larger Afro-Asiatic family.
Ramses actually would have spoken Egyptian, a member of the Egyptian branch of the Afro-Asiatic family.
They are not the same language, nor is one a modern version of the other. Being in the same family doesn't make them sound the same (at all)-- languages like German, Persian, English, French, and Spanish are all in the same family (Indo-European) and you probably realize how different they are.
Having Ramses here speak Egyptian Arabic truly is akin to having Caesar speak Italian. Coptic would have been the best choice, it is also within the group of Egyptian languages like ancient Egyptian, and we know how to speak that as well as we do Latin or Nahuatl.
Also, about the lack of vowels in the writing-- it is not that vowels are unimportant or unstressed, rather that it allows fewer letters to be needed to write down the word, so it is simpler. You don't need vowels really-- I bet you can read this sentence without them: "Wh wnts hmbrgrs nd frnch frs fr dnnr?"
I don't think the choice to use Egyptian Arabic ruins the game or anything, and I don't know if it was done out of ignorance or what, but it's too bad. It would have sounded nicer in Egyptian (re-created) or Coptic.
And just so you know, Harun Ar-Rashid speaks Classical Arabic in his videos, which is fully appropriate and well done.
Welcome Reddawg151. 
Nice to hear someone speak with a little authority on the subject. I do think that Firaxis half arsed it on some of the other languages as well and it's a shame. Oh well, baby steps I guess.
Nice to hear someone speak with a little authority on the subject. I do think that Firaxis half arsed it on some of the other languages as well and it's a shame. Oh well, baby steps I guess.
stealth_nsk
Deity
I think they just made the language recognizable by locals.
I know for a fact that in Egypt (the modern nation) there is a sizeable Coptic minority, which is Christian and holds very good knowledge of the Coptic language (they have literature in that language!).
I do take a stand here because it is not seriously difficult to use that knowledge.
I mean having Ramesses speak Arabic is not even as having Caesar speaking Italian, is like having Brennus or Boudicaea speak English... Between Italian and Latin there is a direct "genetical" lineage...
stealth_nsk
Deity
Actually modern Coptic has little relation to ancient Egyptian. Even 2000 they were as close as, for example, Spanish and French.
@stealth_nsk
Ok, but still Arabic is not even that close.
I was just pointing out that the closest relative alive is Coptic, not Arabic. So the "minimum effort" argument does not go in favour of Arabic.
By the way: I love semitic languages, including Arabic, but here there is a question of respecting to the best possible level the memory of a high-culture.
Ok, but still Arabic is not even that close.
I was just pointing out that the closest relative alive is Coptic, not Arabic. So the "minimum effort" argument does not go in favour of Arabic.
By the way: I love semitic languages, including Arabic, but here there is a question of respecting to the best possible level the memory of a high-culture.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Sure. I found that a little annoying (actually I was the first who started thread about european words spoken by Monty
), but I could live with it without any problems.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Yeah, I realized I was saying Egyptian was a Semitic language, but I don't think it is (just Afro-Asiatic, which does have dramatic variety).
Well, having Caesar speak Italian would be the equivalent of having Harun Al-Rashid speak modern Arabic (it's at least an offshoot of the language). I used the example of having Hiawatha speak English (the language of the area today, not the language he spoke), but that's perhaps slightly more extreme.
That's my thoughts. It doesn't ruin anything, but it's somewhat of a shame.
Now that's great to hear. I figured modern Arabic was a reasonable compromise, but it's great that they went a step further here (although it's far easier to find someone who can speak Classical Arabic). So I'll say they're 1-1 so far (I'll give them credit and say 2-1 if Augustus is speaking classical Latin. Now I'll wait on Alexander
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