Brave New World's New Civilizations - REVISED!

I wish someone would post a poll with Argentina in it. It really is a strong candidate, and it would represent Spanish South America.

Please god, not another poll that's a slight variation on theme... :suicide:

LordProtector said:

In fantasy land I would love to see a European Union civ, but would be very difficult to see them surviving early to mid game, as their UA, UB, UU, or UI would probably all need to be late late game. Unless their UA was an Iron Age Europe 'Urnfield Culture' or 'Longbarrow Builders' theme - with a limited ability to domesticate barbarians or turn encampments into cities or holy sites or similar. With any other uniques not coming in until very late in the game. But I think we have more chance of seeing an Atlantis civ.

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Who would their leader be? Angela Merkel?

"Hello I am Angela Merkel. If you ever need to be bailed out, feel free to add your lands to mine."

Gucumatz said:

"Hello I am Angela Merkel. If you ever need to be bailed out, feel free to add your lands to mine."

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She's basically managed to get a mortgage on the half the Byzantine empire, so she'd be a good candidate! Puts Maria Teresa to shame... ...Poor little Cyprus [literally].

Admittedly, there is no compelling leader for an EU civ. The best would be Helmut Kohl or Mitterand I suppose, but we could always have one called 'A Belgian Bureaucrat' - "Welcome to the beating heart of the New Europe! Please fill out this form."

Gucumatz said:

"Hello I am Angela Merkel. If you ever need to be bailed out, feel free to add your lands to mine."

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I've selected Portugal, Israel and.. Nubia. I think it would make a very interesting choice.

Morroco/Moors/Berbers would be an interesting choice, but who'd be their leader? And aren't they too similar to the Arab civ? Same would go on the line Tuaregs-Songhai.

nunor said:

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Nice image alteration! How hard was it to remove Bismarck's mustache and add hair on his head?

I like how the lighting effects are consistent. It's nicely done.

The six remaining Civilizations that I would most like to see would be:

4. Canada
5. Israel
6. Zulu
7. Portugal
8. Vietnam
9. Native American civ

I feel like this selection would round out the game well. Additionally, I feel that these civs would be able to benefit well from the new gameplay additions in BNW.

VossPL said:

Morroco/Moors/Berbers would be an interesting choice, but who'd be their leader? And aren't they too similar to the Arab civ? Same would go on the line Tuaregs-Songhai.

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Plenty of Berbers here.

Depending on Firaxis goes about it, there's plenty of potential Berber leaders:

• Kahina, a sort of pan-national Berber hero who fought against the Arab invasion
• Yusuf ibn Tashfin, founder of the Almoravid Dynasties, one of the strongest and greatest Berber dynasties
• Abd al-Krim, one of the famous resistance fighters against European occupation, who is said to have had a bit of inspiration on other resistance fighters worldwide such as Ho Chi Minh
• Sheshonq I, Libyan Pharaoh of Egypt and someone the pan-national Berber movement considers to be so important in Berber history the year he was coronated serves as year 1 in the Berber calendar
• Ibn Tumart, founder of the Almohad dynasty, the precursor to the Almoravids and a powerful dynasty in its own right

So leaders is not much an issue for the Berbers, its just that they aren't well known (but then again, Askia and Songhai weren't well known to many who didn't know about them either).


As for similarities, the Berbers are culturally and historically as similar to the Arabs as the Japanese are to the Chinese and the Mayans to the Aztecs. While the Arabs conquered the Berbers (though it took them a long time), the Berbers fiercely resisted both actively and passively to this day, and many Berbers today still keep a strong identity and wouldn't like being lumped together with Arabs. Yes, to some degree they both have origins in nomadic groups dwelling in mostly arid regions, but the similarities end about there - the Berbers importance in history deals not only with the Arabs, but also the Carthaginians (Numidian mercenaries were Berber), the Romans (a number of Roman Emperors had Berber ancestry, and the Berbers were important in the rise of Christianity, providing a number of early Christian leaders), and so on. That's not to mention that after the Arab conquests they still developed rather an amazing civilization - the Alhambra, for instance, is one of the greatest architectural marvels of the world; in Iberia, the blending of Christian Iberian, Arabic, Jewish, and Berber culture was, on the Muslim side, mostly led by Berber or part-Berber dynasties. Unfortunately, the game considers the Berbers and North Africa part of the Arabic civilization - the name list features Moroccan and other North African cities, for instance - and this trend has been occurring every time the Arabs have been included in the Civ series, so I doubt we'll see the Berbers anytime soon.

Still, the Berbers would provide another decent female leader possibility - Kahina.

ferretbacon said:

Nice image alteration! How hard was it to remove Bismarck's mustache and add hair on his head?

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Now that you mention it... Merkel does look like a moustacheless Birsmarck

Khmer and Indonesia because those regions are not properly represented in Civ.

Picked "Native American" because of the inuits. I really think an eskimo Civ makes perfect sense. They could be able to use snow, and heck, even have them go through ice like Carthage does with mountains. It'd be awesome.

Nubia and Israel just because they would probably have cool mechanics and units.

Nepal because I know nothing about Nepal culture, and I would be curious to what it would be about (I guess it'd be mountain based? Maybe religious?).

I didn't vote for a European Civ because there are enough already, but Portugal would be by far my #1 choice.

VossPL said:

I've selected Portugal, Israel and.. Nubia. I think it would make a very interesting choice.

Morroco/Moors/Berbers would be an interesting choice, but who'd be their leader? And aren't they too similar to the Arab civ? Same would go on the line Tuaregs-Songhai.

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Abd ar-Rahman I seems a good choice, his dynasty lasted 3 centuries in Iberia.

The Moors are very different to the Arabs both in ethnicity and in the way they did things. It's like saying Rome and Byzantine are too similar or China & Korea. There are basic similarities but also huge differences.

Heart Break Kid said:

Nepal because I know nothing about Nepal culture, and I would be curious to what it would be about (I guess it'd be mountain based? Maybe religious?).

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I also voted Nepal. They are the civ I want most to make it that I know never will (at least not anytime soon)

And yeah it's a very mountainous place (see: Mt Everest) and has a rich Hindu & Buddhist religious history - they have some of the world's most beautiful temples to match its beautiful scenery

phaethon16 said:

I wish someone would post a poll with Argentina in it. It really is a strong candidate, and it would represent Spanish South America.

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I didn't put Argentina in the poll because it didn't get a lot of support in the forums, as compared to others which competed for the final few spots. Personally, with the inclusion of Brazil and the pre-existing Inca, I think South America is sufficiently represented; Argentina wielded less influence than Brazil and IMHO there are more influential civilizations to be included (Portugal, Indonesia, Italy, etc.). Argentina, as far as inclusion in the poll, lost out to Gran Colombia (and yes, IMHO Argentina is a better choice than Gran Colombia, but the latter seemed to be more popular).

I'm almost certain Phoenicia will be included. The're famous for spreading alphabet throughout Medditerraean and were a nation of sea merchants. Both this facts work well with BNW innovations-World Congress and trade routes. Plus they surely deserve it.

Phoenicia is long overdue, but unfortunately it won't happen now. Too much overlap with Babylon and Assyria.

Don't forget the "Phoenician Heritage" bit in Carthage's UA

Khmer, Timurids, Majapahit, Hittites, Israel....and Italy.