Ideologies are good for 3/4 Victory Types

How does a free courthouse in conquered cities scream defensive to you? As you say, as a gameplay mechanic, that benefits a player going for domination victory. Double Agent has a diplo-lean to it, and we already know they also excel at science.
 
What would make the most sense to me is to let science be the neutral VC. Then we could let Freedom be bad at domination, Order be bad at diplomacy and Autocracy be bad at culture. Shame all we really know is that this isn't the case.:p
 
Nujabes said:
How does a free courthouse in conquered cities scream defensive to you? As you say, as a gameplay mechanic, that benefits a player going for domination victory. Double Agent has a diplo-lean to it, and we already know they also excel at science.
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It doesn't scream defensive to me. I said it was beautiful for Domination victory but Order's other tenants are defensive as they focus more on domestic development and security. Iron Curtain ensures that conquest doesn't make you as unhappy as it usually does.
 
Personally, that would make the most sense to me as well. Although I'm not positive that Order should be bad at Diplomacy.
 
Louis XXIV said:
Personally, that would make the most sense to me as well. Although I'm not positive that Order should be bad at Diplomacy.
Click to expand...

Neither am I but what else is there? I justified it to myself by noting that the USSR's "diplomacy" often involved a lot of tanks.;) Seemed better than making them bad at domination (for the same reason) and I don't want them to be bad at culture (but that was the runner up).
 
Tsar NicholasII said:
It doesn't scream defensive to me. I said it was beautiful for Domination victory but Order's other tenants are defensive as they focus more on domestic development and security. Iron Curtain ensures that conquest doesn't make you as unhappy as it usually does.
Click to expand...

I guess I was a bit confused, because you specifically said that "its a tenant more in line with keeping your empire rather than expanding it as you said before", but it doesn't do anything unless you are expanding your empire by force.

To seek's insinuation, I also think that diplomacy is just gonna kinda be a wash, as in, all ideologies are considered more or less equal. How many tenets can they really make aimed at the Diplomatic Victory? Compared to the other three, it's really thin.
 
Perhaps rather than looking at certain Ideologies as "bad" at one victory type, we should view them as "not as good at it as another" but its got its unique way of doing it.
 
There is also possibility that Order AND Freedom are not good in domination victory. I dont think we should care too much about individual tenets that we already know. There are so many that we dont know.

I think Order could be a good ideology for a player that has been aggressive in the past, but now wants to play more defensive. I think "Iron Curtain" gives free courthouses to cities you have already conquered, not to cities you will conquer in the future.
 
Nujabes said:
I guess I was a bit confused, because you specifically said that "its a tenant more in line with keeping your empire rather than expanding it as you said before", but it doesn't do anything unless you are expanding your empire by force.

To seek's insinuation, I also think that diplomacy is just gonna kinda be a wash, as in, all ideologies are considered more or less equal. How many tenets can they really make aimed at the Diplomatic Victory? Compared to the other three, it's really thin.
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I was thinking more along the idea that you had conquered a large number of cities and puppeted them to avoid a nation wide riot so you adopt Order and poof, everyone's got a Courthouse to go file their complaints too and everyone is happy.
 
My suspicion is:

Freedom - Bad at Conquest
Order - Bad at Cultural
Autocracy - Bad at Science

Take "bad" to mean "no advantage for it." I can justify these outcomes. I can also justify why each should be good at all of them. However, I think Autocracy will get a Cultural advantage through the Prora. Order should have an advantage for diplomacy - I would suggest an advantage in Coups, but the Comintern also works. Autocracy also has Gunboat Diplomacy for Diplomatic victory. Unless Freedom has a weakness there, Diplomacy sounds like the one each has the advantage for.
 
I really feel they could tell us more about the ideologies. Im personally most interested in new social policies and new ideologies. These change every game you play. We already have 39 known Civs so 4 new Civs dont really add that much to the game.
 
Freedom: Culture, Diplomacy, Science
Order: Diplomacy, Domination, Science
Autocracy: Diplomacy, Domination, Time
 
Lord Olleus said:
True, but I meant science victory rather than raw science. Science is by a long way the most important resource in the game, non of the tenets should affect it directly as it would become the defacto one to pick. See rationalism.
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People should also keep in mind that ideologies don't come into effect until late in the game. If you're an era or two ahead of everyone else, you'll still be the science leader for quite awhile, even if you pick an ideology that doesn't give you rocket-building bonuses.
 
JFD said:
Freedom: Culture, Diplomacy, Science
Order: Diplomacy, Domination, Science
Autocracy: Diplomacy, Domination, Time
Click to expand...

He said three of the four victory types. If he included time victory, he would have said five.
 
Well, I think it's safe to assume each ideology will "ban" one type of victory out of the four, leaving us with one victory type everyone will have benefits to.

I really suppose it's diplomacy. Like LouisXIV said:

My suspicion is:

Freedom - Bad at Conquest
Order - Bad at Cultural
Autocracy - Bad at Science
Click to expand...

It makes the most sense to me, since we already have Autocracy's three victory types confirmed (the only one I would think of not-beng-that-good in diplomacy).

The only thing that makes me sit unconfortable with that theory is the Freedom tenet which gives you Foreign Legions. Seems pretty 'domination type' to me, and might represent that freedom might be bad at... diplomacy?
(Assuming A, it's good at science - as mentioned in the gameplay video. B it kept it's cultural focus from Gn'K. C it's Foreign Legions represent a domination focus).

Even with all that, I really think domination ought to be the ever-present victory type. But if it's decided diplomacy keep this status, their decision would make sense, nonetheless.
 
I have to assume that the thrill of the space race between Soviet Russia (Order) and US (Freedom) is the marquee event of the late game so this is why Autocracy does not partake in Science Victory enhancements. Autocratic diplomatic maneuvering is terrible though :mad:.
 
I think the Volunteer Army one is more to help you in time of need than picking it to kill other people.
 
Yeah, Freedom being bad for Domination and Order being bad for Culture makes most sense. Communist countries have been notorious for being isolationistic which means less Tourism.
 
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