Please help me choose one of these six Civs

I'm about to begin a new game for the first time in a while and I'd like to try a civ that I've never been before. There are actually several civs I've never played before (I tend to play the same civs repeatedly), but there are six civs I'm interested in:

Assyria, Carthage, England, Indonesia, Portugal and Spain.

I'll be playing on a 'huge', continents map for the first time (just upgraded my pc). Epic speed, Emperor difficulty (which will be made more difficult with the two mods I'll be using), with all victory conditions enabled. I'll probably include 17 civs and 25 city-states (a lower ratio of city states than the 2-to-1 default). 17 civs is more than the 12 recommended for a huge map size, but I think that this is a well-balanced number of civs: not so few that it takes forever for to meet them, but not so many that no-one would at least consider liberty over tradition.

I'm also using two mods: Buffed AI and Smart AI.

So what do you think of these six civs with my game set-up? What are the preferred strategies and victory types for each? Which Social Policies and Ideologies have the most synergy with each of these civs?

Assyria seems interesting to me because they encourage some pre-dynamite (artillery) aggression without being a complete warmongering civ (they do it for science), like the Mongols or Huns.

Carthaginian free harbors seem to encourage over-seas colonies, which could be more available on a huge map -which I'll be playing on for the first time.

Indonesia's unique ability also encourages over-seas colonialism.

So does Portugal's in a very interesting way. Even more interesting, is their unique city-states feature.

Spain's unique ability could make for some very interesting and specialized cities (double yields for natural wonders). Also, the conquistador being able to found cities over-seas is again interesting for developing colonies.

I'm looking forward to starting, but I'm really torn between these choices of civs; and, as I mentioned earlier, I've never played as any of them ever before. So what can you tell me? Thanks in advance.

I've only really given Carthage and Indonesia a good effort, haven't played the others either.

Indonesia is fun, and your city gets 2 of the unique luxury so you are guaranteed to have a trade and a personal source. Their Kris swordsman are fun, but I never seem to get to use them because the window is so short. Make a lot though if you use them as their unique abilities carry on to the infantry they upgrade into. They don't really have a winning specialty, but obviously the Candi will give a good faith source regardless of religion so focus on trees that allow you to spend that faith if not starting your own religion outright. Candi's faith output is maximized by having as many types of religions in-city as possible so consider that in your play, and since you are already building the Candi (garden) a culture victory might be appropriate.

Carthage can be pretty OP especially on an archipelago map, but you aren't playing that. You instantly acquire harbor connections in all cities far before harbors are actually available boosting trade ship range and gold as well as making virtually free city connections. You don't have to use them overseas, though they are certainly good at that. Just settle all their cities on the coast to maximize your benefits, you won't ever need roads. A good pantheon pick for them is the one that gives science for city connections as it gives a nice early edge to science, often immediately catching me up or putting me ahead. It is not often recommended, but aggressive early settling will yield the most of their abilities and this particular pantheon. Even if you have to ride the red to do it. You also will make a lot more gold of course due to all the free and extended connections without the need for roads. Their mountain-traversing ability also can be quite helpful on a continents map allowing you quick shortcuts or avenues for attack that no other civ can take. Carthage is a favorite of mine. To best capitalize on their abilities a wider empire supported by a strong religion is recommended and due to all the extended sea routes and connections they can do very well at spreading a religion passively. I would recocmend a science-type victory for them, though they are fairly balanced. You will do well due to good internal growth and your large gold reserves. You will likely be ahead all game if you can score the pantheon I mentioned early. It isn't a lot of science, but it comes so early that it can mean an extra 20-30% on your science for a critical early period in the game. All that science accumulates in your capital I think, making their national college even more powerful early.

Marshall Thomas said:

Assyria, Carthage, England, Indonesia, Portugal and Spain.

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With Assyria, you can delay building Amphitheaters until the tech for Opera Houses is right around the corner. And you'll want any city about to complete a military unit to have a Great Work of Writing inside its Royal Library.
It's UU is also good

Carthage in BNW represents an early money gain. The moment you have the wheel you'll have city connections between all coastal cities and Carthage.
And you start with the Harbor bonus to cargo ship trade routes.
It also has an early Naval UU.

England has a naval speed advantage, which actually includes embarked units, including civilians. It also has a very good naval UU, but their land UU (long bow) is even better.

Indonesia: Cities on different landmasses than that capital that you don't already have a city on will get a new luxury; so this can be a big happiness boost.
It's UB can be built everywhere. The spare copy can either be traded for yet another luxury or sold for cash. This will also cause an increase on cargo ship trade route values.

Portugal: It's Unique Improvement boosts happiness. It's Unique ability boosts gold from trade routes throughout the game, but their naval UU also get yet more gold thru one time selling of cargo.

Spain: Is all about finding a natural wonder or two early. The Conquistor is actually more about razing a poorly placed city you captured overseas and founding it one or two tiles away in the correct spot than peaceful overseas expansion.

England. Difficulty is too low for Assyria, map is too large for Spain, reduced CS nerfs Portugal a bit. My strat would be to own the coastlines. Your speed bonus gives you more options whom to attack, which should help you diplomatically.

I'd try Spain and go on a NW hunting spree. If you are lucky you'll find 2(or 3 with the GBR) in fairly close proximity and that means 2 or 3 settlers rush bought. If you find the FOY that's 20 happiness! If you pick 'One with Nature' pantheon you should be the first to found and enhance your religion before anyone can found a religion.

What makes it interesting is you will be settling in places you wouldn't normally and that can lead to some early tensions......

phillipwyllie said:

I'd try Spain and go on a NW hunting spree. If you are lucky you'll find 2(or 3 with the GBR) in fairly close proximity and that means 2 or 3 settlers rush bought. If you find the FOY that's 20 happiness! If you pick 'One with Nature' pantheon you should be the first to found and enhance your religion before anyone can found a religion.

What makes it interesting is you will be settling in places you wouldn't normally and that can lead to some early tensions......

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Assyria: They're better in theory than in practice now that the AI punishes you for the entire game for being aggresive early on. Problem with them is their early advantage is amazing, but if you press it the AI gets wise to you and forms an alliance against you. And their siege towers can't attack units, making them useless when the armies of your jealous neighbours inevitably come knocking at your door.

Carthage is amazing. Those free harbours make them a trading superpower, and the Quinquereme is unstoppable early on, allowing you to grab a nice port city or two (depending on how many the AI is willing to let you have without getting angry). And the ability to cross mountains is situational, but when it's useful you won't believe how useful it is. Sometimes it's just exactly what the situation calls for - suddenly instead of having to go around the entire continent to get passed a mountain range; suddenly that well-protected city nestled at the foot of the mountains is totally vulnerable to attack from behind.

Portugal - one of the top tier civs in my opinion. They never lack for gold and once you can build feitoria happiness is never an issue again either. And the Nau actually makes you money, allowing you to accumulate a fleet of them quickly and cheaply, and they upgrade to ironclads - which if you have an abundance of coal lying around makes your fleet basically unbeatable for the entire industrial age.

Spain... I've had fun with Spain, but I've also quit more Spain games than any other because for some reason they almost NEVER seem to start near to a natural wonder, which kind of ruins the fun of playing them. They should definitely be coded to start near one, it's the whole point of them! Spain without a natural wonder is like a landlocked Carthage.

I've actually never played England at any length so I couldn't tell you about them, but they sound pretty amazing on a map with lots of water. Indonesia sounds like a bit of a lemon so I've never played them.

And sometimes when you're playing Spain, this happens and you dance with joy

But instant 500 gold (or even around 100) means A LOT in Civ V. ESPECIALLY in BNW where early cash is hard to come by. Being that lucky as I was is pretty much a won game from the get go.

Assyria has the seige tower and the royal library ub which lets you spam great works of writing earlier without the use of the amphitheater. Stealing technologies is also available for Assyria when conquering a city.
Carthage has fre harbors way before harbors are discovered. Also, units can cross mountains after the first great general is born.
England has ships of the line and an extra spy.. longbowmen have +1 range as well. .
Indonesia has the khandi which gives +2 fpt per religion in a city.. kris swordsmen and 2 new resources from building a city in another island is in the Indonesia ua.

Good thing about the Candi is that it does NOT require fresh water. Can be good once you want to start generating some Great Persons. With the AI's happy missionary/Prophet spam, you won't find yourself too short of faith.

I played indonesia and was disappointed. I almost never want to settle on other continents. The kris swordsmen can actually get very NEGATIVE random bonuses.

On a big map Spain's 'settler on a horse' is hard to beat.

I can only really talk about Carthage and Portugal. They are both very similar, relying on naval supremacy, exploration, and trade.

With Carthage, with those free harbors, you are more encouraged to expand wider and stretch your empire due to your long continent expanding trade routes early on. This along with classical UU's, you want to be pretty aggressive in expansion early on. Not necessarily declaring war, rather aggressively land grabbing coasts. So with messenger of the gods, you could push science. Or you could turn to domination, or use your trade wealth for diplomacy. I tend to use my gold for military.

With Portugal, the purpose of expansion is more for unique resources, because of the UA. So I play them less wide than Carthage and focus on areas that will score me good trade centers. However, with access to luxuries from the UB, you can still easily go wide. I also tend to be more passive early on, not blooming until the renaissance (when their UA and UB arrive). Overall, I tend to focus more on diplomacy as Portugal because they are more reliant on city states.

So, just talking about these two, I would say it's based on whether or not you like early power and domination (Carthage) or mid-game power and diplomacy (Portugal). Both require a liking for naval civilizations.

Marshall Thomas said:

I'm about to begin a new game for the first time in a while and I'd like to try a civ that I've never been before. There are actually several civs I've never played before (I tend to play the same civs repeatedly), but there are six civs I'm interested in:

Assyria, Carthage, England, Indonesia, Portugal and Spain.

I'll be playing on a 'huge', continents map for the first time (just upgraded my pc). Epic speed, Emperor difficulty (which will be made more difficult with the two mods I'll be using), with all victory conditions enabled. I'll probably include 17 civs and 25 city-states (a lower ratio of city states than the 2-to-1 default). 17 civs is more than the 12 recommended for a huge map size, but I think that this is a well-balanced number of civs: not so few that it takes forever for to meet them, but not so many that no-one would at least consider liberty over tradition.

I'm also using two mods: Buffed AI and Smart AI.

So what do you think of these six civs with my game set-up? What are the preferred strategies and victory types for each? Which Social Policies and Ideologies have the most synergy with each of these civs?

Assyria seems interesting to me because they encourage some pre-dynamite (artillery) aggression without being a complete warmongering civ (they do it for science), like the Mongols or Huns.

Carthaginian free harbors seem to encourage over-seas colonies, which could be more available on a huge map -which I'll be playing on for the first time.

Indonesia's unique ability also encourages over-seas colonialism.

So does Portugal's in a very interesting way. Even more interesting, is their unique city-states feature.

Spain's unique ability could make for some very interesting and specialized cities (double yields for natural wonders). Also, the conquistador being able to found cities over-seas is again interesting for developing colonies.

I'm looking forward to starting, but I'm really torn between these choices of civs; and, as I mentioned earlier, I've never played as any of them ever before. So what can you tell me? Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

My thoughts:

Assyria: if you going to attack early with those siege towers, prepare for lots of warmonger hatred. Or focus on going tall and attacking later on to make use of UA. In MP, you would cause greater concern for your neighbours than if you chose the Huns, I reckon.

Carthage: it's a kind of civ that encourages you to go wide and take up as much coastline as possible. It's a good choice for continents and archipelago maps.

England: it's a very flexible civ that covers your tech progress a bit. If you're behind, send your 2 spies out to get techs, if you're in front, protect your capitol and maybe use 2nd spy to maintain control over your best CS. If in between, park a spy in capitol and in some other civ's capitol. Their UU's make them very hard to take down during medieval, renaissance and industrial eras.

Indonesia: Although you get additional luxury resources, they'll become a popular target for luxury bans. Maintain good relations to prevent that from happening. Also, find some iron and train up some super infantry from the kris swordsmen. Discard or give away the bad ones.

Portugal: A very nice civ for making lots of gold. Aim for Collosus as soon as possible. Also, happiness should never really be your problem thanks to Feitorias.

Spain: It's commonly known as a gambling civ: if you get an epic wonder near you, you would be unstoppable.


Overall, it depends on your preferred VC and style. To me, Portugal and England seem to be the most solid civs in this list.

I think I might try Assyria. It seems as though they're meant to attack very early. Then (if successful), they must deal with warmonger penalties. but this can be balanced-out by the fact that they've acquired new territory very early in the game, with plenty of time ahead to reap the rewards.

The reason this interest me is that it seems to be the exact opposite of how my usual civ5 games go. Usually I turtle until dynamite (artillery), keeping the best relations I possibly can with as many other civs as possible. Then if I need to war against a run-away civ, I don't really need to be concerned with warmonger hate because I'm well developed and also I can liberate city-states and other civs fairly easily to off-set any warmonger penalties.

One civ I'd like to add to my original list of candidates is The Shoshone. What type of social policies and victory types do you suggest for them? Also any final thoughts on comparing playing as Assyria vs playing as The Shoshone would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

England, it's the most fun by a long way. Indonesia can also be interesting, but it's difficult to find synergy with them, and they can be frustrating unless you're very very good. Spain is a craps shoot; you'd be better served going to a casino, Assyria has sucked since they changed the diplo hit for taking cities early, and emperor is low for them anyway; the UA works better on deity. Portugal is fine but can be a bit dull, Carthage too, though it can be fun to expand so quickly early game. Shoshone are all about the early game and get very boring from the mid game on.
Go England. UA means your settlers and workers can take all the best coastal spots without having to stay compact, SoTL is the keshik of the sea, and longbows are one of the best and more interesting UUs about. Extra spy makes life in the renaissance super cool too. Have fun!

+1 to England for fun!

The reason they say that Assyria is better on higher difficulties is that their UA gives you techs your enemy had that you didn't have, and the AI civs are often more advanced on the higher difficulties. Once you eclipse them in research you have no more techs to steal from them, after all.

But in the ancient and classical eras, even on Prince, you won't be far enough ahead of the AI to completely eclipse them. You can just research the bottom half of the tech tree, where many of the military techs are, and then fill out the top half by capturing cities.

LoneRebel said:

The reason they say that Assyria is better on higher difficulties is that their UA gives you techs your enemy had that you didn't have, and the AI civs are often more advanced on the higher difficulties. Once you eclipse them in research you have no more techs to steal from them, after all.

But in the ancient and classical eras, even on Prince, you won't be far enough ahead of the AI to completely eclipse them. You can just research the bottom half of the tech tree, where many of the military techs are, and then fill out the top half by capturing cities.

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Assyria can easily become a runaway when a player uses it's UA properly. My first game in BNW was as Assyria IIRC, and I quickly became a runaway, getting 2 eras ahead of everybody else.

Babri said:

Assyria can easily become a runaway when a player uses it's UA properly. My first game in BNW was as Assyria IIRC, and I quickly became a runaway, getting 2 eras ahead of everybody else.

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In my current game, Assyria is my closest neighbor and DOWed me early. He came at me with a bunch of Warriors, a couple Archers, and a Horseman. I beat back his army and he gave up Nineveh (which he had forward settled on me anyway) in the peace deal. If only he had some early UU he could have used against me things might have turned out differently.