Double Your Pleasure

Sorry a few more things then I'm done for the night.

There should not be so many units available in the ancient era. Alexander never used an elephent. Ancient warfare should be more difficult to wage, promoting a longer game. But that is just because I love my tanks.

Scientific nations should start w/ 4 techs. I haven't seen any Mod use this.

Mining should be moved back in the tech tree a little.

I'm also having difficulty finding power armor flic's for Mobil Infantry. Where can I find it?

Maybe add a light armored swordsman with a lower def, higher attack, and two moves.

Flag wheeled unit on more military units. Military units weighed down by armor and swords would find it difficult to transverse the swamps. A large jungle between two Civs would be much more of an important geograhical aspect to the game.

OK i'm done
 
Originally posted by Kal-el
Elucidas,

To all,

do you guys want me to include the original animations if they need to be put into a new unit folder? i.e. do you want me to include the scout animations in the ranger folder?

This will make the downloads that much bigger. but I know some of you are still having problems with it.

Two comments:

1. I thought it was possible to refer animation files from other directories by prefixing a relative path to the filename in the ini file. If so, then that would solve your problem. I could be wrong.

2. Another possibility: Include a small dos batch file that copies all the required files after installation. This would keep down the download size and ensure a correct installation.
 
so who wants to help out the mod?

I have compiled the bitmaps for the chariot archer and the elephant archer. they are separated into each direction, north, northwest, west, south, and southwest, they are further subdivided into idle, running, attack, and death. this should make it easier for whoever is willing to put them together.

I am posting the files below. please indicate if you have downloaded the files and if youare planning on putting them together. I recommend using the warelephant as the basis for the elephant archer and the war chariot as the basis for the chariot archer. you should export the civ3 flc using the civ color 13. this most closely resembles the blue in the AoE bitmaps and will give you your best results when you reload the palette colors.

elephant archer

chariot archer

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civalaholic,

regarding ss parts 11-25. while it is true that those parts are not flagged the other parts 1-10 are flagged to have to be built multiple times.

parts 1, 2 and 5 each have to be built 3 times, part 6 twice and part 10 8 times.

when considering new wonders to add to the game, i looked first at what wonders were already offered in the original game. there you will see things like, Sun Tzu's art of war, Smith's Trading Company, Universal Suffrage, theory of Evolution, Iron Works, Military Academy, Battlefield Medicine, etc. none of the above, and there are others, would qualify under your "giant stone monument" test for Wonders. Emanicpation and the Civil Rights movement were at least of equal importance to Universal Suffrage. A written constitution is a major turning point in a nations political life, granted a country may change its constitution ove time but the wonder in the game is not the particular constitution that was written whenever you build it, but represents the notion that your nation has developed the notion of a constitution, and everything that that stands for, law and order, govt. of the people, for the people, by the people, etc. the statue of liberty may indeed be gone in a thousand years, but then again, the Colossus is no longer standing, nor are the hanging gardens nor the pharos at alexandria, so i guess i don't really see the point there.

re too much food.

what about changing plains from 3/1/1 to 2/2/1?

re scientific nations and four techs.

scientific civs should start out with three techs, because they are supposed to get one free tech at the beginning of each era.

each civ will now have two trait specific units. check out the thread on the main creation forum for more info.

the power armor flics should be in the downloads above or you can find them here

alexander may not have used war elephants but plenty of people did. the germans never used chariots either but that doesn't prevent them from being in the game or from anybody building them. If your nation has access to elephants and you don't take advantage of that, your military leaders are fools. it wasn't just the indians who rode around on elephants. don't you remember the story of hannibal crossing the alps?


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RobO

1. you are correct

2. I am DOS illiterate, so if youare offering to do that, that would be great!

Clearly I need help with the packaging of this mod. I would be more than grateful to anybody who would be willing to do this. As, i'm sure would a lot of other people.

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Well, I think that's all for now. A new version of the bic, along with the fixed tech trees should be ready by monday. so finish off the game you are playing now, and report any other bugs or suggestions. not all suggestions will be incorporated in, but if you make a strong argument for it and it doesn't go against the basic principles of the mod and I don't here anything reacting against it, it has a good chance of getting a look in version 0.2.
 
Originally posted by Kal-el
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RobO

1. you are correct

2. I am DOS illiterate, so if youare offering to do that, that would be great!

Clearly I need help with the packaging of this mod. I would be more than grateful to anybody who would be willing to do this. As, i'm sure would a lot of other people.

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Well, if 1. is correct then 2. is not needed. Simply remove all duplicated files and refer the "original" file from the ini file in a different directory whenever needed. It should tidy everything up and keep the size down.

As for helping, I don't really have a lot of time, and I can't download a whole lot of stuff all the time as I use a 56K modem and pay for the phone connection. And the unit files are extremely large.
 
I can see a lot of good effort is going on here, but there are a few things I would like to point to. This is still only approaching version 0.2, so there is a way to go, and there is a lot of potential in this mod.

1. Keep the focus (whatever it is). This is so large and takes in so many varied ideas that it is in danger of becoming a manyheaded beast that can't decide which way to go. Perhaps give it a vision statement or something - double pleasure is good, but not quite precise.

2. Beware of copyright issues. There may be a lot of nice pics in different games, but using them indiscriminately will most likely put some people off, especially when you make it available for free download. And please don't flame me for this - it is a waste of time and not at all constructive. I know this is a hot topic, but I'm just stating an opinion.

3. Beware of game balance. This is a difficult one, and probably requires way too much time and playtesting to be handled well. For example, the missionary I saw in a previous post is a religuous unit, yet it has decidedly expansionist traits (a settler with a move of two). This unit risks making the expansionist trait much less attractive than the religuous trait.

FWIW, these are my opinions and they are offered in a helpful spirit.
 
I've got the altered unit ini's for those units that use the original artwork (as stated a few pages back, but I guess I'm on everybody's Ignore list :cry: ) . They are in a zip file which hopefully is attached to this post.[Edit: Deleted the original file - the updated file for v.0.2 can be found here ]

And I'll gladly help out packaging the mod.

Regarding balancing
I think I'll wait until the release of v0.2, before adding my own 2 cents - I would like to play around with the stuff that's currently in - after all, It may not be a good idea to change too much at a time - might just throw the game off-balance in another direction.
Though, Robo, You may be right about the expansionist traits becoming less attractive.

GIDustin: What did you include in the zip - i tried collecting all files I have, and only reached 11 mb...

Kal-El:
One Question - Are Settlers supposed to be flagged as wheeled ?
 
Here's a thought. It seems, from reading this thread, that people are having problems getting the files in the right places and such.

I think this can be accomplished by using two methods.

1/ a DOS batch file that will create folders and copy files to them from existing folders and renaming them as necessary. This would relieve the suffering experienced trying to get all the right stuff copied for the different units and takes care of relocating all the files currently used by Civ3... no need to have to download Megabytes of stuff that's alread on your machine.

2/ a zip file that places all the new files in the correct locations.

Voila! A smaller download and everything in the right place.

What do ya think?
 
Couple more beta things...

1. when you build National Health Care, the flic for National Sports League (or so I assume) pops up. On the subject of flics, I like all the ones I've seen so far for the new wonders. Great job.

2. you can discover fascism before you discover totalitarianism, which I think should come after the latter tech, not before....wasn't totalitarianism gonna unlock communist regime w/ marxism and fascist state w/ the corporation?

3. I took a look at the bic file in the editor and looked at the governments, and fascism supports no units per city. There's no unit cost or units supported per town/city/metro, so I set them up to about communism's level. The rate cap was set at 5....wasn't it going to be higher?
 
Great, Isak or Kingpin, who wants to put it together? Which option would create a smaller download?

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Regarding the Missionary: I see what you mean. What if instead of a move of two they have a move of one but are not wheeled? "Unlike other settlers, Missionaries, spurred on by their religious zeal, are able to cross vast mountain ranges and trek through thick jungles in search of souls to save."

this answers EmperorCoopinius' question. Yes, settlers are supposed to be wheeled, but your initial unit "The Tribe" is not, so if it looks like you may be in a less than ideal spot you will be able to get out of there. but after that no crossing mountains or jungle until you have roads.
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regarding copyright: I am not too worried. It doesn't take too much tweaking to call something your own. All you really need to do is show that you have added some original content and as long as your not selling it you should be ok.

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re health care: thanks, must be a typo. i will look into it and have it fixed for v0.2.

I am glad you like the images.
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and re Fascism and Totalitariansim. yes, fascism is supposed to require totalitarianism and the corporation. communism should require totalitarianism and marxism.

I noticed that last night, too and fixed the tech tree and .bic file to make it so.

Communist Regime
Rate Cap: 8
Worker Rate: 100%
Assimilation Chance: %
Draft Limit:
MP Limit:
Corruption: Communal
Cost/Unit:
Free Units Per:
Town:3 City:6 Metropolis:10
Diplomats:
Spies:
War Wariness: Low
Immune To:
Maintenance: None
Labor: Forced
Standard Trade Bonus: No
Standard Tile Penalty: No

Fascist State
Rate Cap: 9
Worker Rate: 100%
Assimilation Chance: %
Draft Limit: 3
MP Limit: 3
Corruption: Problematic
Cost/Unit:1
Free Units Per:
Town:3 City:6 Metropolis:10
Diplomats:
Spies:
War Wariness: None
Immune To:
Maintenance: Required
Labor: Paid
Standard Trade Bonus: Yes
Standard Tile Penalty: No
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I guess I have more to do than I thought. Thanks for plugging away at the play testing.
 
Kal-el,

I may have a solution for the too much food thing. We are currently testing a new food system in the Balancer. If you would like to get together and discuss it let me know. I will be home later tonight. I may have some other things you might like. Good Luck, and talk at you later.
 
Kal-el,

Since the first Beta release there have been a lot of little bugs fixed and small changes make.

Would you maybe please release a beta2 so we all have the latest version. I have tried and make all the samm corrections myself as people found them and you give the corrections, but there are some I dont know how to do and I might have missed one or 2 along the way.

So if it is not to much to ask, could you please release beta2 so we can give it a testing, or give do you have a planed date on release of version2 - maybe once all the buildings are done?

Thenks.
 
Victorvanwavere,

I am hoping to have beta v.0.2 out by early next week.

I posted this earlier, but it may have gotten lost in the responses to other questions and comments. All of which I truly appreciate, please keep them coming.

A new version of the bic, along with the fixed tech trees should be ready by monday. so finish off the game you are playing now, and report any other bugs or suggestions. not all suggestions will be incorporated in, but if you make a strong argument for it and it doesn't go against the basic principles of the mod and I don't here anything reacting against it, it has a good chance of getting a look in version 0.2.

list of changes:
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v.0.2 will fix the following errors:
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citizens will no longer have prerequisite techs
Ancient Age Science Advisor: Mining has been moved over to line up with the rest of the starting techs.
Industrial Ages Science Advisor: there is an arrow pointing from industrialization to guerilla warfare
Communism now requires Marxism
Fascism now requires Totalitarianism- the free units will be fixed
Civil Liberties: The arrow from Radio has been moved so that it actually points to Civil Liberties.
Longships will now turn to attack, just like other early ships.
The Circus Maximus will require the 4 coliseums it was supposed to.
Egyptian War Chariot now upgrades to Knights
You will no longer be prompted to build hospitals to raise city levels
Basic Barbarian will now be the Barbarian Warrior
Advanced Barbarian will be the Barbarian Rider
Plains will be switched from 3/1/1 to 2/2/1
National Health Care will point to the right Wondersplash
Actually did lower the player advantage versus barbarians

Starting techs will be fixed:
-Commercial - The Wheel - was alphabet
-Expansionistic - Farming - Was Pottery
-Industrious - Mining - was Masonry
-Militaristic - Warrior Code - used to have option of wheel
-Religious - Ceremonial Burial
-Scientific - Alphabet - was bronze working

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Additons:
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Trait Specific Units will be added – these units are still up in the air. Iam adding them in so they can be playtested for balance.
-Commercial - Caravan
-Expansionistic - Ranger
-Industrious - Serf
-Militaristic - Brave
-Religious - Missionary
-Scientific – Greek Fire
New Units:
-Convoy - Available with Guilds – Caravan unit for everybody
-Freight - available with Motorized Transportation – Modern Caravan unit
Change to Truck – now available with Mobile Warfare instead of Motorized Transportation

New Tech City - Planning: Requires Steel, Allows Park and Eiffel Tower.

New Improvement - Park: Requires City Planning, adds happiness reduces industrial pollution.

Like I said hoping for early next week, but I have a really busy weekend ahead. thanks for the interest.
 
Civalaholic brings up a good point about the scientific civs. Why don't they start the game with three techs? They are supposed to get a free random tech at the beginning of each era, but they only get the one tech, in this case alphabet.

I am tempted to give them an additional tech but the only one that isn't a starting tech for some other trait is Masonry. And I don't like that, plus it just seems like that might be too much of an advantage.

thoughts?

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Rob0,

the goal of the mod is to make the game better. Variety being the spice of life, I have tried to add more choices into the game. You will have more decsions to make, when deciding which techs to research, which buildings to build, which wonders to go after, where to put you cities, rivers become much more important for industrial and corruption purposes, even which civ to choose. To accomplish this I have almost doubled the total number of techs, buildings and units that are in the game.

Originally there were:
82 Original Techs
29 Original Improvements
10 Original Small Wonders
24 Original Great Wonders
65 Original Units
6 Original Governmanets
22 Original Resources
------------------------------
238 Total

I added:
49 New Techs
43 New Improvements
16 Small Wonders
25 Great Wonders
48 New Units
4 New Governmanets
3 New Resources
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188 total

Your right, not quite double your pleasure, but pretty darn close. It would be closer if we could add more resources without the game going all buggy.
 
Your right, not quite double your pleasure, but pretty darn close. It would be closer if we could add more resources without the game going all buggy.
Who measures pleasure in numbers??? No one I know (except maybe a few ladies performing the oldest trade in the world, but that's an entirely different topic)

From the few games I've played, I would say it potentially quadruples your pleasure - I really think the project to add more variety to the game, has been/will be succesful and the great side effect is that our actions will have greater consequence, as it seems it will be extremely hard to have every city build every improvement (at least I hope so - I've only managed to play until around 1200 AD so far, but I was waaay behind in every city even that early in the game) - this adds a totally new dimension to Civ3 - the dimension of ..... (drum roll, please)...: _Strategy_ (Ok, I'm only kidding, Firaxis :p)
.... but IMHO the original is a bit too bland sometimes - I'd personally like to have cities that were totally unique, but I guess that won't be on this side of Civilization 5, so for now, I will stick with the DyP mod.

Back to reality: The Settlers on Wheels, is a good concept, however I think it could lead to some serious distress - what if some poor civ is trapped between a mountain range and a jungle and there's only room enough for one city - by the time he gets roads, everybody else will be flying space shuttles. But okay, lets test it - as I said, there's nothing wrong with the concept of different settler types

About Citizens requiring techs - I think it's only when entertainers require techs, the game crashes, so I guess it might be possible to keep the tech req's for scientists and tax collectors.

Other than that, keep up the good work. Oh and btw - any chance there'll be a special limited edition release of v. 0.2 - something with a poster, a mug, t-shirt and a silver pin... and most importantly: released before monday:D
 
Back to reality: The Settlers on Wheels, is a good concept, however I think it could lead to some serious distress - what if some poor civ is trapped between a mountain range and a jungle and there's only room enough for one city - by the time he gets roads, everybody else will be flying space shuttles. But okay, lets test it - as I said, there's nothing wrong with the concept of different settler types

well, hopefully it won't take that long. but if you do find yourself in such a situation its probably best to move your Tribe to a different location right away. The tribe unit is not wheeled and has a 1 for defence. I was thinking about giving them treat all terrain as roads, for this very reason. I can’t imagine people would be using them as scouts, cuz it’s generally a good idea to get that first settlement built as soon as you can. :D They already have the radar flag to help you see whether you are in a good position or not.

About Citizens requiring techs - I think it's only when entertainers require techs, the game crashes, so I guess it might be possible to keep the tech req's for scientists and tax collectors.
that's good to know. so I will put that back to the way it was.

Other than that, keep up the good work. Oh and btw - any chance there'll be a special limited edition release of v. 0.2 - something with a poster, a mug, t-shirt and a silver pin... and most importantly: released before monday
Sorry, my wife has been out of town for two weeks, and she is finally getting in tonight, only to leave again next week on more business. So, as you can imagine she takes precedent over you guys. :p Believe it or not!: eek:
 
Originally posted by Isak
About Citizens requiring techs - I think it's only when entertainers require techs, the game crashes, so I guess it might be possible to keep the tech req's for scientists and tax collectors.

Actually, I played the game all the way through the end of the industrial age (before Kal-el trapped me into doing these buildings :p [just kidding]). Anyway, I didn't have a crash. Maybe because I increased my luxery rate to decrease the civil disorder. Anyone else able to re-create like I have?
 
Haven't had the crash myself, but Civalaholic seemed to be suffering from it previously, and in this thread at Apolyton it [changing the entertainer to require a tech] is mentioned as one of the things that can make the game hang.

Apparently, it happens if the AI want's to change a citizen to an entertainer but doesn't have the tech yet - probably creates some sort of endless loop, or whatever. Contrary to my previous post, I imagine it could probably happen with any of the other two specialist citizen types, but I have my doubt the AI ever uses any of these until it gets to the point where all city squares are occupied, and by that time the tech has probably been discovered by the AI as well.

Civalaholic (or anyone else who's experienced this), you wouldn't happen to have a save game from this situation, even though the problem is solved now - i would really like to reproduce this bug, to get some info on what happens.

BTW, Nightstorm - I don't know much about art, but I know what I like, and I like your buildings :goodjob: - they can appear in my mod too (in the year 2525, if not later, but still....)


Sorry, my wife has been out of town for two weeks, and she is finally getting in tonight, only to leave again next week on more business. So, as you can imagine she takes precedent over you guys.
You mean I'll have to spend time with my two-year old kid this weekend ..... bugger....... where did I leave that copy of Everquest.. :eek:
 
Originally posted by Isak


You mean I'll have to spend time with my two-year old kid this weekend ..... bugger....... where did I leave that copy of Everquest.. :eek:

LOL! :lol:

Nightstorm, I did the same thigh you did, jacked up the luxury rate, and everything worked just fine. The AI did seem to ahve trouble compensating though....Dehi was in civil disorder every time I walked by until I sent some dragoons to put them out of their misery. The AI also got a "hell" spot as I like to call it, Babylon was behind a mountain range with me to the north, and immense jungle to the south. He managed 3 cities, but one of em culture flipped to me, and the second one didn't even have a unit in it when I attacked them.

Having said that, having prereqs for the citizens worked fine for me, and I actually like the idea...if only you could get the AI to raise their luxury rate.
 
so, has anybody actually gotten the prereqs to work the way they are supposed to.

EC, you say "having prereqs for the citizens worked fine for me, and I actually like the idea." By that do you mean that the scientist and tax collectors work? fine after you switch the entertainers back to no prereq, or what exactly are you saying?

If they work I will leave them and just switch entertainers back to normal.
 
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