What is the biggest problem in Final Frontier

What is the Biggest problem with Final Frontier

  • Not Enough Resources

    Votes: 77 22.0%
  • Not Enough Wonders

    Votes: 94 26.9%
  • Tech Tree is too Short

    Votes: 112 32.0%
  • No UU's and UB's

    Votes: 76 21.7%
  • Not Enough Buildings

    Votes: 36 10.3%
  • Slow Movement System

    Votes: 92 26.3%
  • Pirates

    Votes: 45 12.9%
  • Not Enough Units

    Votes: 56 16.0%
  • Problems With Diplomacy

    Votes: 35 10.0%
  • Not Enough Improvments

    Votes: 61 17.4%
  • Bad AI/Bad Auto-Explore

    Votes: 90 25.7%
  • All Of The Above

    Votes: 63 18.0%
  • Other (Name it and Describe it)

    Votes: 42 12.0%
  • None Of The Above

    Votes: 12 3.4%

  • Total voters
    350

Thinker19930602

Ideas Guy (a.k.a.Thinker)
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
216
What do you think the biggest problem in Final Frontier Mod. Post suggestions, mods, mod ideas, etc.

Feel free to discuss!!!:scan:
 
well it ties into the tech tree being too short, but the map generator crowds too much, I would prefer vast open leagues of space,
 
well it ties into the tech tree being too short, but the map generator crowds too much, I would prefer vast open leagues of space,

I agree, the "settling phase" is kinda stupid since the AI will settle on completely idiotic spots close to you, far from them making them map a bloody mess.
 
well it ties into the tech tree being too short, but the map generator crowds too much, I would prefer vast open leagues of space,

Wouldn't Vast open leagues of space require a better movement system?

P.S. I Voted "ALL OF THE ABOVE":scan:
 
Runs way to slow! About 1,000x slower then my games normally run for Civ IV.
 
I voted Not Enough Improvements, as your Construction Ships would be almost utterly useless if not for Starbases. However, I think the unrealistically crowded map is a big problem too (if systems were that close, they'd rip each other apart!)
 
Other (ok, several others) :)

In MP games the start is too random, your home system is created randomly, everything around it is created randomly, the wrecks are random your proximity to vacant systems and other players is all random. For single-player games it's fine as it adds spice, for MP games it's a bit rough as the common result is one player being in such a better position that the game is quite boring for the other while they sit and wait for the other player to finish their turn. This 'harsh randomness' also tends to give many of the AI players a poor start effectively crippling them.

Tech research is way too easy (fast) and there are too many free techs in the wreckage (all of them are potentially available). This leads to a lot of the other problems with movement speeds and production rates feeling too slow relative to tech discovery.

Some of the leader traits are obviously sub-par compared to the others, the AI has a harder time with this than human players. The Forge is probably the best example, if left to the AI they will always be in last or second to last place once everyone starts colonizing since the -1 food on all planets isn't exactly compensated for with +1 hammer per mine. The AI performs best with the civs that have no penalties such as the Red Syndicate and Avowers.

The ship variety is nice but in the end it boils down to a war between battleships and heaping stacks of cheap defenders. The battleships need some weaknesses to offset their immense power. As much as I hate the 'rock, paper,scissors' mechanic it is needed in a game like this or the variety is little more than fluff.

There need to be a few more resources with each resource having less effect than they currently do. For example, rather than crystals giving +3 happiness you could have three different resources, each giving +1.

I'm sure there's more, but those are my biggest issues with it.
 
I voted other. I like the short tech tree as you can finish it and get to just building ships and making gold to support a large army.

I think the biggest missing part of the mod is corporations. There are none and this mod I think gives great potential for scifi corporations.
 
There is a problem????

Seriously I think the inablility to play multiplayer with teams is the most serious to me at the moment.

Also I noticed someone else posted about horridly slow play and I had the very same issue when I tried to play with everything on sparce. Interestingly enough I have played several with different settings and never any slowness.

Not enough civs for a huge map without either doubles or setting up thru custom game and only running 8 civs.
 
I think the unrealistically crowded map is a big problem too (if systems were that close, they'd rip each other apart!)

I disagree. The map is attempting to portray 3-dimensional space on a 2-dimensional "board." The systems could be separated by who knows how much 3-dimensional space. Further, you can set the map generator to create more sparsely-populated galaxies, so that's no major concern.

My main gripe is the factions presented. Almost all of them are extremely poor choices. Does anyone play anything other than the Red Syndicate? I can't think of too many people who would deliberately play with leaders who reduced health and happiness. I also don't like how pirates work. There was an excellent scenario in the original Civ pack, the Mediterranean World one, as some of you may recall. It became unplayable because large numbers of barbarians would just appear out of nowhere, right next to your cities, and attack. This scenario has a similar problem with the pirates. Let them spawn like crazy in deep space (please!) where we can't see them, but having them appear from nowhere right on top of my solar systems is annoying as hell. Further, builder ships aren't very useful, and the better jump lanes appear too quickly.
 
Starting with 2 population in every city is immensely powerful for spamming colony pods, I won easily as New Earth just by expanding very early, hooking up a few +3:) and +3:health: resources, and bam all your starsystems max out in population with double the territory of any other civ, before you even start conquering. Put the population on those 0:food: 2:hammers: 6:commerce: or similar planets until you hook up some resources and you have a large amount of instant commerce turn 1 after the city is built to offset the maintenance costs, something you can't have in the regular game with a rushed expansion.

City settling locations are much fewer in this than a standard game of Civ, so an early land grab is powerful if you can keep your economy up. There's no where else for your rivals to expand.
 
Starting with 2 population in every city is immensely powerful for spamming colony pods, I won easily as New Earth just by expanding very early, hooking up a few +3:) and +3:health: resources, and bam all your starsystems max out in population with double the territory of any other civ, before you even start conquering. Put the population on those 0:food: 2:hammers: 6:commerce: or similar planets until you hook up some resources and you have a large amount of instant commerce turn 1 after the city is built to offset the maintenance costs, something you can't have in the regular game with a rushed expansion.

City settling locations are much fewer in this than a standard game of Civ, so an early land grab is powerful if you can keep your economy up. There's no where else for your rivals to expand.

Not to mention Hector starts with Polymers allowing him to convert 100% hammers into research, with his extra starting hammers from the extra pop it's easy to get ahead of your starting limit on units going into a deficit. I'm starting to like him the most. For an early run at the religions this guys takes the cake, I can easily get both Wealth and Survival if I get lucky and pop Exploration. Wealth is a guarantee either way. I can definately see why he gets -2 health & happiness.
 
My main problem with it is the music. Classical violin music and opera does not go well with space conquest. My second main issue is the lack of improvements. In Civ4, jungles cause problems. You can't really use them, and they make your cities sick. It seems reasonable that some things, like radiation clouds or nebulas, should be able to be destroyed. Similarly, it should be possible to mine asteroids, like chopping forests. You get a nice little production bonus at your nearest city, and the asteroid field goes away. A simple space station might be a good thing to include. It could act like a fort, allowing fighters and bombers to launch from it, and providing added defense to ships which are in the same tile.

A possible building to include later in the game might be a warp gate, or teleportation device, or wormhole, to send your units from one city to another, or to a starbase, very much like the airports in Civ. The space elevator technology should also let you build a space elevator. A space elevator might, for example, increase your production rate of units by 25% because you can get them up into space more easily. The bonus would not apply to buildings because you generally don't need to put them in space.

Another big problem is that the resources are much too restricted to current technology. At the bare minimum there should be some exotic matter, if only to facilitate the construction of the warp lanes that the game already features. As an example, any particle with negative mass would be attracted to normal, positive masses, and repel them. This would create a form of acceleration that requires no energy. Simply holding such material in the back of a ship would push it along. It could also be used to generate the unique form of gravity required to create a warp field, to allow faster than light travel (not movement) within the laws of relativity. Such matter would attract itself, so it could be expected to exist in clusters out in space, or gathered around regular matter as well. Strange material like this is exactly the kind of stuff you'd expect to be mining and using in a futuristic warp driving game.
 
I wonder why nobody above (and the poll) mentioned this problem:
- not enough civs

I tried playing Final Frontier (mod) three times now. In each game (epic - big size) I was encountering one or two of the civs twice! Almost with the same color... I really could not even distinguish them. One was in war with me, the other my best friend.

That's definitely a party popper!
 
I disagree. The map is attempting to portray 3-dimensional space on a 2-dimensional "board." The systems could be separated by who knows how much 3-dimensional space.

Not really. The 2D approach actually makes somes sense, as the galaxy is basically a 2D structure. Our disk-shaped Milky Way Galaxy is some 100000 light years across, but only up to some 2000 lightyears thick. There are way, way more galaxy stars in the directions that are in line with this disk plane than in other directions (Actually, that's the Milky Way band you can see in a dark sky).
Simplifying this disk to a plane is not that for off from reality, if you just say the few 100 light years or so in the direction perpendicular to the galactic plane is not so relevant.

Then again, a star system like ours is some 0,001 lightyears across, while the distance between star systems is more in the range of several to several dozen lightyears. So yes, the map is extremely crowded compared to the real galaxy. But whatever :shrug:
 
Then again, a star system like ours is some 0,001 lightyears across, while the distance between star systems is more in the range of several to several dozen lightyears. So yes, the map is extremely crowded compared to the real galaxy. But whatever :shrug:

As a few people mentioned, depending on how you look at it it's not crowded at all.

The graphical scale of Suns versus Planets is already changed to be exponential, rather than linear, or most planets would be a pixel in size compared to their sun.

Likewise, the distance scale of near vs far planets is shrunk to an exponential fit, so inner-planets aren't crowded together visually with vast distances between outer planets.

It's the same with the scale of systems vs distance between systems, the system is simply made to appear larger for gameplay purposes. Note that all effects of the system, including the +50% defense shield, only take place in the tile the sun is on, not the entire area of graphical representation of the defensive shield. The system only exists within the bounds of one tile, and the distance between systems is actually quite large.
 
my complain is it is very hard to tell how much potential a solar system has...
just how do i figure out how valuable my enemies system are and which to invade 1st?
 
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