Anyone still playing Medieval II?

I realize I'm quite late to the Total War series, having only had Medieval II gold edition for less than a year. I've spent most of my PC gaming life playing the Civilization and Age of Empires series. M2TW overall is quite satisfying - the battles are epic, the campaign is grand. A wonderful fusion of real-time strategy and turned-based strategy. That said, I do have some issues with this game, and I was wondering if anyone else here could share their experiences or offer any insights:

1. Siege Towers. They work okay until I've got them into position and ready to unload onto the walls. This is when the problems start. Sometimes I'll order additional troops to ascend the tower and unload onto the walls, but they'll just stand there at the base of the tower like idiots doing nothing, while the group fighting on the wall dies due to a lack of re-enforcements.

2. Handgunners and other late-period gun infantry. Why can't I get them to stand in a straight line? Even with 'guard mode' enabled, they inevitably start wandering and changing position, sometimes even walking in front of gunfire from my side. This is very frustrating, and has lead to me not bothering to build them because they're not worth the hassle.

3. Every game feels the same. Unlike in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, where there's countless strategies you can adopt depending on the situation and many different ways to win, in M2TW every game starts with a frenzied grab of nearby rebel settlements, and the only way to win is by massively dominating the known-world militarily. There's not a lot of changing it up there.

I'll add more gripes later as they come to me. For now, feel free to add your own or to discuss other aspects of the game.

I hate seeing "anyone still play?" in thread titles sometimes.

But you're Canadian so I'll forgive you!

1. Probably a bug, have you gotten the latest patch for the game? Pathfinding in sieges is kind of bad in total war games, sadly.

2. IIRC (its been a couple of years or so since I played vanilla) I don't remember them worknig well in vanilla either. Try mods like Stainless Steel.

3. Yeah it does that a bit, try narrative a story in your head, I've rarely finished a game once I got 1/3rd of Europe. Again though, try the mods. Total War Center is a major fansite with lots of mods.

shadowplay said:

1. Siege Towers. They work okay until I've got them into position and ready to unload onto the walls. This is when the problems start. Sometimes I'll order additional troops to ascend the tower and unload onto the walls, but they'll just stand there at the base of the tower like idiots doing nothing, while the group fighting on the wall dies due to a lack of re-enforcements.

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I don't know if that's a bug you're experiencing, but if there's still some troops from the first regiment on the tower, that might be why.

2. Handgunners and other late-period gun infantry. Why can't I get them to stand in a straight line? Even with 'guard mode' enabled, they inevitably start wandering and changing position, sometimes even walking in front of gunfire from my side. This is very frustrating, and has lead to me not bothering to build them because they're not worth the hassle.

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I'm a long-term veteran of the game and I'm in the same boat as you are.

3. Every game feels the same. Unlike in Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword, where there's countless strategies you can adopt depending on the situation and many different ways to win, in M2TW every game starts with a frenzied grab of nearby rebel settlements, and the only way to win is by massively dominating the known-world militarily. There's not a lot of changing it up there.

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Remember that the total war series is combat based. The variation is supposed to come by what battles you fight, not so much with your campaign-map strategy. Once you get pretty good at the game, you start to figure out how to exploit the AI (even unintentionally), and then even battles start to feel kinda the same. That being said, there's still few video game experiences that feel less accomplishing than winning a battle where you're outnumbered >2:1.

PrinceScamp:

1. Probably a bug, have you gotten the latest patch for the game? Pathfinding in sieges is kind of bad in total war games, sadly.

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Well, I have the gold edition of the game, so it should be patched already. I went online and couldn't find any new patches for it.

LightSpectra:

I don't know if that's a bug you're experiencing, but if there's still some troops from the first regiment on the tower, that might be why.

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Visually I couldn't see any, but I wonder if the game thought the tower was still occupied. Either way, this doesn't always seem to be happening, so let's hope it doesn't happen anymore.

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When lacking ranged siege units to knock down a section of the wall, how do you like to get into walled cities? I think the siege towers would be the best option if they worked a little smoother. Using the ram causes a lot of casualties and they're so easy to ignite if there're archers on the walls defending. Ladders seem like they could be used effectively to overwhelm the defenses since they're so cheap you can afford to give each individual regiment one.

I never try breaching fortifications. I either let the siege wait out; better, the enemy foolishly tries to reinforce or exit the castle, in which case I decimate them.

Siege Equipment is the way to go. Why, let your forces batter themselves to death on those stupid walls? Just have a couple of catapults or trebuchets and destroy them walls!

@OP: If I could find the disc, I would still be playing Medieval 1.

Ahhh Medieval 1, great game!

So how much defense should you leave in your cities typically?

And is it usually worth converting castles into cities and vice versa? It seems like a waste to convert a well upgraded castle to a city...

Edit: Making peace with an enemy seems to be near impossible unless they are the one to offer it. Any advice in this area?

CA takes its Total War name quite seriously, hence diplomacy is pretty crap.

I'd convert a castle into a city if you really don't need another army recruitment center and would prefer to get money.

MODS!

They provide you with a lot more diplomatic (usefull) options!

On the Defence part, you can leave the cities and castles deep in your territory almost undefended, as the AI rarely goes further than the first city it sees. Keep a few spearmen a few archers and some cavalry. Defend your walls with your spearmen (or archers), try to burn any siege object with your archers, and leave a unit of 2 or 3 spearmen in front of your gates. When the attackers have battered your gate down, use your cavalry to get them stuck in that narrow passage. Most of them will rout or die by the sheer force of numbers (yours and theirs)

Also, look for the best terrain and season possible to fight. Only fight on your terms. If defending a place that's difficult to access, build forts at the places which are open. Basically everything Sun Tzu said.

or arnold schwarzenegger

M2tw is a great game, i usually use cannons or trebuchets to attack walls, I'd say the English Polish, Spanish, Moorish, Scottish, and Byzantine campaigns are most fun

Any nation that's really far away from the Mongols and Timurids is really fun to play. Picking eastern nations tends to be extremely frustrating, though I've won a few of those games.

shadowplay said:

Any nation that's really far away from the Mongols and Timurids is really fun to play. Picking eastern nations tends to be extremely frustrating, though I've won a few of those games.

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On the contrary, the Eastern nations are the funnest, simply because of the pressing nature of Mongoloid invasions. I rather wish they were more aggressive, like in MTW 1. It was not uncommon to see Mongol-controlled Poland or Hungary.

shadowplay said:

When lacking ranged siege units to knock down a section of the wall, how do you like to get into walled cities? I think the siege towers would be the best option if they worked a little smoother. Using the ram causes a lot of casualties and they're so easy to ignite if there're archers on the walls defending. Ladders seem like they could be used effectively to overwhelm the defenses since they're so cheap you can afford to give each individual regiment one.

Click to expand...

Ladders are my personal favorites, since they cannot be burned down like siege towers and are cheap to produce.

Cheezy the Wiz said:

Ladders are my personal favorites, since they cannot be burned down like siege towers and are cheap to produce.

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What units do you use them with? They have to have a high defence value don't they?

shadowplay said:

So how much defense should you leave in your cities typically?

And is it usually worth converting castles into cities and vice versa? It seems like a waste to convert a well upgraded castle to a city...

Edit: Making peace with an enemy seems to be near impossible unless they are the one to offer it. Any advice in this area?

Click to expand...

I leave about 4 peasant or spear militia units in each settlement.

Normally, I will not convert a castle into a city unless the castle's position is useless (Like castle towns in Britain when you owe large tracts of Europe)

With regards to peacemaking... get stainless steel, its better.

Haha, this thread is kinda funny considering I just bought the Gold Edition like a week ago, and I'm having a blast

Cheezy the Wiz said:

Ladders are my personal favorites, since they cannot be burned down like siege towers and are cheap to produce.

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The only downside to ladders is that your guys only unload one at a time on the wall, which makes them much more vulnerable. This is unlike with siege towers, in which everyone just jumps down at the same time.

Though you can force your units to run with ladders, which is really nice.

I usually use ladders to get a couple of units onto the other gatehouses where the defenders have not concentrated their troops.