Deity Ramesses II

Duckweed conquered his continent way before I did. I waited until I got Cavalry and secured the land only somewhere around 1100AD - 1200AD. I'm sure he as a better player can crush my finish date if he chooses to.

Anyway, it was a nice map to play and experiment on. Many maps are suffocating in a way or another that they force the player to go a certain route in order to have a chance at winning. This setup made it possible to exploit all routes at once.

What was your early tech-path here? Yyeah? Duckweed?

Mining->Mansonry->Pottery->BW->Writing->Aste iirc.

yyeah said:

Mining->Mansonry->Pottery->BW->Writing->Aste iirc.

Click to expand...

Ok thanks. And AH?

@ Erlend78

I didnt self tech AH i traded for it later. I wasnt planning for WC rush so thats why.
I went for mansonry becouse we had stone in cap its preety good tile.
Then for pottery becouse i bulid GW and i could do it without chooping with stone and IND trait, allso with GW i didnt need barb def so no need for BW ealier... but i could use some extra commerce .
BW later for mids and whips, so ... had to reserch it anyway.

@ JSS

JSS said:

Duckweed conquered his continent way before I did. I waited until I got Cavalry and secured the land only somewhere around 1100AD - 1200AD. I'm sure he as a better player can crush my finish date if he chooses to.

Click to expand...

Duckweed is showing to pps why RII is a monster
And btw i didnt saw you playing corps JSS i meen yea, i dont remember that you was useing it. Whats your assessment(?) for it in dom/conq games ?

12345
I dont know how to delete posts

@ Yyeah

I don't think RII ever could forgive you for treating horses and his WC's like that

Erlend78 said:

@ Yyeah

I don't think RII ever could forgive you for treating horses and his WC's like that

Click to expand...

yea that was funny, and yea i just made myself this map a little bit harder but if you are good IMM player you should handle this 1.
You can allways post some ss if you want us to help you with deity.

I think i'm going to give Deity it's first try on this map

I'm thinking of going AH-mining-BW. If not going for GW i better get some WC's for defence and to mess with Mao. Reading the thread i know a little about the map, but guess thats ok on my first try

My plan is worker-steal from Mao and settling on the horses to the west ASAP. My next techs then probably pottery, mysti and fishing, but in which order? So many useful techs i guess masonry has to wait. I think i'll skip the Mids, since i'm not Philo and i have at least two happy resources close by.

yyeah said:

And btw i didnt saw you playing corps JSS i meen yea, i dont remember that you was useing it. Whats your assessment(?) for it in dom/conq games ?

Click to expand...

Yes, I had both Sushi and Mining. I don't have enough experience on using corporations to say anything definite one way or another, but in this game at least I felt that the corps were very strong even for domination/conquest. I could've maybe achieved an earlier victory date had I gone for SP. Production with such a high number of cities should not have become a problem, so a 40+ hammer Mining inc. was quite an overkill tbh. However, the corporations were the safe bet here to achieve a late game position where I could do basically anything I wanted. Within the span of a few turns I could've 1-turned a massive army while out-teching everyone.

Edit: I also found out that spreading corps across a large empire with a few airport cities is pretty fast.

Erlend78 said:

What was your early tech-path here? Yyeah? Duckweed?

Click to expand...

Granary 1st so that you don't waste 7 turns to irrigate a FP
AH to locate the horse
Mining->BW to chop and whip
Mys for border pop
Fishing->Sailing to setup your best GP farm and to enable your foreign trade route

The rest can be of any order, but I researched PH before Wring for the 20% bonus. In deity, you'd better research all the smaller techs than IW. Sometime it's very important to choose your trade targets wisely, especially if your contacts are unwilling to trade. Mansa in game is a great favor to Human.

If you are learning deity, I would not suggest to follow my strategy. The more important things to learn is how to time your settlement including the location and order of your cities, GP production, and diplomacy.

yyeah said:

@ Erlend78
Duckweed is showing to pps why RII is a monster

Click to expand...

Hatty is the better leader for Egypt. WC is one of the broken UUs that could affect your strategy more than others. Especially if Horse in capital, then controlling your neighbor is almost a guaranteed feasible strategy.

My free time for CIV is very limited at present, so I won't continue on this game. From my 720AD save, the game should be won ~1200AD. If restarted, this game might be won ~1000AD. Only easy map allows for so many various strategies.

Duckweed said:

Hatty is the better leader for Egypt.

Click to expand...

Its debatable, same like ... what trait is better Phi or Spi ?
I bet that 90% of expirienced players will say Phi for me 100% Spi.

It is more about playstyle beetween Cre,Spi,Ind,Phi and map offcourse then saying that this is better for sure.
Fin is best cant argue with that, all this 4 above is depended on player and map imo.

At begining of my jurney with civ 4 i would say that Cre is better, now when i learned how to use Ind propertly, well i dont think so.

yyeah said:

Its debatable, same like ... what trait is better Phi or Spi ?
I bet that 90% of expirienced players will say Phi for me 100% Spi.

It is more about playstyle beetween Cre,Spi,Ind,Phi and map offcourse then saying that this is better for sure.
Fin is best cant argue with that, all this 4 above is depended on player and map imo.

At begining of my jurney with civ 4 i would say that Cre is better, now when i learned how to use Ind propertly, well i dont think so.

Click to expand...

Cre is a trait which is great in almost any situation since it enable early fast development of cities. You don't need to worry about losing tiles to AI and cities could get better locations. Think about how the snowball effect, you could realize more why Cre is great. While Ind is more situational and weak sometime, cheap forges are good, but the bonus on wonders are trivial, without the correspondent resources, I would usually skip the wonders. Moreover, In many maps, you could find horse so that attacking your neighbor is quite often the way to go and you have to forget about wonders.

Taking this map for example, playing Hatty will easily have 5 turns of advantage.

Phi is also a situational trait which depends on how good are your GP farms.

@ Duckweed
Well saying that Ind is trivial when you compering it to Cre is preety funny sry.
I disagree that you dot have to worry about loosing tiles to ai, you can settle city in good location then loose importand tile to ai.
Same snowball efect you can have with wonders.
Well if you playing Hatty rushing and bulding wonders isnt an option, with RII you can ezy rush some1 with WC's and bulid wonders what puts you ahead in later game.
Like Oracle for example with RII you can rush and have Oracle at safe 1800BC date without Marble.
Best thing in Ind is that you can 3 pop whip National Wonders across empire and have huge amount of gold when you need it.

^I would not say more as I know how hard to change others' opinions. That's why the most convincing arguments in SGOTMs are test saves.

You could try to rush Qin and build Oracle in this game and see the result. SGOTM17 was a example of addicting to Ind trait in Kaku's play.

@ Duckweed @ Yyeah

I tried the game, Nice map

I went AH - pottery - mining - BW - Writing - Aest......

I think i'm in good shape. Mao is dead and i can start producing Cuirs at 400AD. Think i used mainly the same tactics as Duckweed. Pillaging and killing Archers and stopping Mao from getting metals until i got HE. Then i wiped Mao out. I found out that if you have the WC's in gangs of 2, Mao never attacks them with archers if one of them is fully healed. I could pillage and kill as many archers as i wanted. Using a GG to give a WC 1+ movement-range also allowed me to steal a lot of workers in the field . I think i only built one worker myself, after taking out Mao and 3 barb-citys i think i have 15-20 After Mao's death i tecked heavily to Lib and picked MT for free

I'm not very good at Cuir-rushes. Can you tell me the basics? How many? One big army or several smaller and attacking several citys at the same time? Are you helping the Cuirs out with catapults? Are you drafting?

Hope for an answer

@ Erlend78
Iam not drafting Muskets, and iam not useing cats.
Inicial stack i have around 30, and usually, iam taking out 2 cities in 1 turn if i can.
Well depend on where ais stack is. If ai have stack on your borders and you can just wipe him out, in 1st turn you shoud do it.
If you want take out 2 cities, split stack, but not too much, you need to have point where you can stack again if, ais stack comes.
Its depended where ai have army.

Erlend78 said:

@ Duckweed @ Yyeah

I tried the game, Nice map

I went AH - pottery - mining - BW - Writing - Aest......

I think i'm in good shape. Mao is dead and i can start producing Cuirs at 400AD. Think i used mainly the same tactics as Duckweed. Pillaging and killing Archers and stopping Mao from getting metals until i got HE. Then i wiped Mao out. I found out that if you have the WC's in gangs of 2, Mao never attacks them with archers if one of them is fully healed. I could pillage and kill as many archers as i wanted. Using a GG to give a WC 1+ movement-range also allowed me to steal a lot of workers in the field . I think i only built one worker myself, after taking out Mao and 3 barb-citys i think i have 15-20 After Mao's death i tecked heavily to Lib and picked MT for free

I'm not very good at Cuir-rushes. Can you tell me the basics? How many? One big army or several smaller and attacking several citys at the same time? Are you helping the Cuirs out with catapults? Are you drafting?

Hope for an answer

Click to expand...

One thing that you'd like to set early is what's your targeted victory, that's the primary goal which affects your strategies the most.

I'd assume that you are aiming for Domination/conquest victory and answer your questions. Next you need to estimate the possible date of victory. ~1000AD or even to 1200AD, you probably don't need better units than Cuis, otherwise, cavs have a window till AIs have infantries.

Since you need galleons for intercontinental war, Astro is a must, ideally you would have 10 galleons ready when you control your own continent so that you don't let your Cuis sitting idle. So that you need to maintaining your research power to Astro while you are whipping, upgrading and sinking your overall economy.

Because deity AI is very fast at reinforcement, the key of war is that you need to steam roll your target, therefore, not the earlier the better. Usually 2 stacks of 10 units to start is more than enough, especially when you could start producing them in 400AD. However, in order to stream roll your target, 20 units are not enough, you need to have healthy reinforcements of ~5 units every turn. With this setup, you could take at least 2 cities in the 1st turn of DOW and at least 1 city in the every following turns. Multiple barracks and Theology would greatly improve the quality of your forces, not only because that they could be stronger, but the 2 promotions could recover your badly injured units instantly so that they can keep rolling. That said, don't give them promotion if a unit already have ~95% winning odd, save the promotions for recovery is better in that case.

Last but the first thing before the war is that you need to scout your target, sometime a spy would be helpful to locate AI's SOD.

After almost a decade of this game, I see a very few of the old-schoolers are still floating about. HAW!

I also remember when people tried to educate me on saying Rammy was a terrible leader because no one would ever be able to win an Immortal game with him. Second HAW!