SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Ozbenno · Apr 4, 2012

Grifftavian said:
The statements above in Green seem to conflict with each other. Is there a Beaker overflow from learning a Tech? If so, is there a way to determine how many beakers were overflowed? I'm going to assume there isn't any beaker overflow, which would be the worst case scenario.

The first statement says if we need less than 1064 beakers into CS then the buld "wastes" those extra beakers. The second statement says that there is an overflow from manually (non-bulb) researching a tech and the overflow from researching Meditation needs to be considered (you can tell as the first turn you put into the next Tech will have residual beakers in it if you check on the top bar).

Grifftavian said:
The Priest Specialists themselves don't add any Beakers, just 1 Hammer & 1 Gold each. So I believe all we will get with the 4 Priest Specialists is the +3 /Specialist from the Representation Civic, for a total of 12 /turn. If this is the case, we will need to self generate 128 by the 5th turn.

We have a library as well so the beakers are multiplied aren't they? 3 * 1.25 per specialist??

Grifftavian · Apr 4, 2012

Ozbenno said:
The first statement says if we need less than 1064 beakers into CS then the buld "wastes" those extra beakers. The second statement says that there is an overflow from manually (non-bulb) researching a tech and the overflow from researching Meditation needs to be considered (you can tell as the first turn you put into the next Tech will have residual beakers in it if you check on the top bar).

OK, thanks for the clarification!

Ozbenno said:
We have a library as well so the beakers are multiplied aren't they? 3 * 1.25 per specialist??

Quite right, I forgot about the Library. :blush:

So aj's numbers are correct, and we need to self-generate 108 :science by the 5th turn. Let me try this again. :sad:

Ronnie1 · Apr 4, 2012

Delhi = finish Cat; continue building Cats; build/whip a Temple only if Happiness becomes a problem.

NEVER WHIP Temples. We are spiritual, the best way to make use of the whip on a temple with this trait is to use the overflow from a 2 pop whip to build the temple in 1-2 turns.

1 Pop whipping a Temple just feels very wrong, IMO.

Can anyone explain to me if I am all mucked up on this issue?

Grifftavian · Apr 4, 2012

OK, what it boils down to is, after the Great Prophet bulb & the :science:

generated by our Great Priests in Delhi under Representation and with the Library bonus in Delhi, we need to self-generate 108 :science:

over the 5 turns it will take for the (hopefully) Great Prophet to be born.

108 :science:

divided by 5 turns = 21.6 :science:

/turn.

The plan is to run 4 Priest specialist for 4 turns, and 3 Priest specialists for the 5th turn. This is to keep from generating too many surplus Great Prophet :gp:

that would overflow into the next GP gene pool in Delhi.

Looking at the current save, with 4 Priest Specialists in Delhi, running 10% Science will generate 6 :science:

/turn with +7 :gold:

/turn going into our Treasury.

When we convert to Representation Civic, 10% Science should give us 6 + 19 (from the Priests) = 25 :science:

/turn with 4 Priest Specialists.

So, under Representation, if we run at 10% Science for 4 turns with 4 Priests, and 0% Science for 1 turn with 3 Priests, we should self-generate {(6 + 19) *4} + {(0 + 14) *1} = 114 :science:

3 Priest Specialists under Representation = 9 :science:

*1.25 [Library] = 11.25 rounded down to 11. With hidden modifiers (1 + 11) *1.2 = 14.4 rounded down to 14.

In generating the 114 :science:

this way, our Treasury will increase to 66 :gold:

[current balance] + 7 :gold:

/turn * 4 turns [10% Science] + 14 :gold:

/turn * 1 turn [0% Science] = 108 :gold:

I love Micromanagement. :aargh:

Somebody check this! :please:

Grifftavian · Apr 4, 2012

Ronnie1 said:
NEVER WHIP Temples. We are spiritual, the best way to make use of the whip on a temple with this trait is to use the overflow from a 2 pop whip to build the temple in 1-2 turns.

1 Pop whipping a Temple just feels very wrong, IMO.

Can anyone explain to me if I am all mucked up on this issue?

If I did whip a temple, I would have tried to set up a 2-pop whip. However, since I'm only going to play the 5 turns it takes to get the next GP born, and those 5 turns will be under Representation, I don't imagine that Happiness will become a problem, which negates the need to rush build a Temple.

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm not qualified to say who is mucked up and who isn't. :mischief:

adrianj · Apr 5, 2012

It's not 108 in total, it's 184. We need 108 on the last turn(fifth turn). In actuality it will be less since we have some overflow from meditation.

It should be doable to just have the 4 turns at 0% then the fifth turn at some number between 0 and 100%. Surely we can afford at least one 100% turn?

Sleepless · Apr 5, 2012

@Ronnie1

We can still 2 pop whip temples as they need 80 hammers @40 for spiritual so as long as we have less than 10 hammers in the build should be 2 pop whipped. I don't think that would work in OR though because we would only need 30 hammers with the OR bonus to build a temple. I think anyway. lol

Ronnie1 · Apr 5, 2012

Sleepless said:
@Ronnie1

We can still 2 pop whip temples as they need 80 hammers @40 for spiritual so as long as we have less than 10 hammers in the build should be 2 pop whipped. I don't think that would work in OR though because we would only need 30 hammers with the OR bonus to build a temple. I think anyway. lol

OK, thanks sleepless...I knew when I was looking at it earlier, I couldn't get a 2 pop whip worked out, but we were running OR at the time which explains it thoroughly. :crazyeye:

Are you ready to play then Griff?

May seems close all of a sudden. :scan:

Grifftavian · Apr 5, 2012

I'll have some free time this afternoon, so I'm planning on resuming my turn set ~2 hours from this post. Again, I'm only planning to play until the next GP is born in Delhi, which should only take 5 turns.

Grifftavian · Apr 5, 2012

Finished my turn set. Save is uploaded to P&R page, or get it with following link...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm15/Misfit_Gypsy_Nuts_SG015_AD0150_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Played a couple of more turns than planned, because I messed up and forgot to change research to Civil Service upon resuming the game. Great Prophet was born and used to bulb 1068 :science:

toward CS. Civil service has been completed, and I've put Aesthetics in as the next tech to research, but there are zero :science:

invested into Aesthetics. As a result of my mistake, we have 70 :science:

invested in Philosophy.

Continuing with the bad news, Osaka was lost to s single Japanese Swordsman. I've retaken Osaka and put in a Granary to build there; it will come out of revolt in 1 more turn.

I've located Kyoto, the Japanese Capitol. Bombed it's Cultural Defenses from 100% down to 36%, but haven't attacked it yet. Also found Tokyo.

A Great General was born in Bombay. I have moved him to Delhi; he has some movement left for the current turn, so could be assigned as a Military Instructor in Delhi, if that's what we want to do with him.

Last turn we met Genghigawa of Mongolia. :crazyeye:

His Spearman came through Kyoto and is on the same tile as our stack 1W of Kyoto. He must be somewhere to the east of Kyoto. Genehigawa is not a voting member of the AP, but Hatsegawa is now a voting member.

Logs & screen shots to follow.

EDIT: I have not changed any Civics after learning Civil Service, so that can be done on the current turn.

Grifftavian · Apr 5, 2012

Here is your Session Turn Log from 25 BC to 150 AD:

Spoiler :

Turn set autolog...

Spoiler :

Grifftavian · Apr 5, 2012

Some screen shots attached. I had moved a few citizens from hammer tiles to commerce tiles trying to learn CS a turn sooner (to no avail), so a few of our cities are not quite optimal with regard to the tiles being worked. Should have changed these back before uploading.

adrianj · Apr 5, 2012

A great prophet! Excellent

Shame about Osaka. Not too big a deal I guess, the city was pretty tiny. More of a loss is the axe that was defending it.

It was a complex turnset Griff, and you handled it splendidly :goodjob:

adrianj · Apr 5, 2012

Kyoto looks like a fortress. Presumably genghis and Liz are on the other side. Kyoto could be a great spot for us to defend from.

We should definitely take Tokyo and Kyoto before suing for peace. After that, our position might even be defensible enough to leave Toku alive.

Ronnie1 · Apr 6, 2012

Bad luck on the Axe loss in Osaka....oh well.

The roster order on 04/05

Conquistador63 = in the hole
Ronnie1 = waiting
sleepless = waiting
McArine = waiting
adrianj = waiting
Grifftavian = just played
Ozbenno = UP NOW
da_Vinci = on deck

mc-red = AWOL

Kyoto does look to be in a very strategic location!

Sleepless · Apr 6, 2012

adrianj said:
Kyoto looks like a fortress. Presumably genghis and Liz are on the other side. Kyoto could be a great spot for us to defend from.

We should definitely take Tokyo and Kyoto before suing for peace. After that, our position might even be defensible enough to leave Toku alive.

Agree on the above and hopefully Toku will give us all his techs still.

Managed a very quick look at the save. Cats bombarding Kyoto some should be promoted CR1/Bombardment promotions to speed up removing the defences then we can suicide them. As AJ mentioned Kyoto is a great choke point. Behind a river on a hill. Shame we need to face Liz's XBows and the only defenders against them will be Cats till we get archery in a peace deal.

Ronnie1 mentioned settling the island and looking at our finances I think we should. Obviously need sailing (peace deal) but 2 cities on there will give all our cities 2 overseas trade routes with currency.

So atm +3 gold at 0% isn't brilliant so I would stop building troops now apart from the ones with hammers already in there. We will get capture gold from Tokyo and Kyoto which will help as well.

Tech still go for aesthetics - lit - music. Would only build the GLib for failure gold though as we don't really want to many more non artist GPs.

Conquistador 63 · Apr 6, 2012

Had a quick look at the save.
I think we can resume tech to Philo as we will probably be able to get Aesth in the peace deal (if we wanted we would get all of Toku's techs now, but we obviously want Kyoto and Tokyo before that).
I would cancel the deer trade to Hammy and trade it to Liz for 7gpt.
Also would attack the injured japanese swordsman NE of Tokyo this turn.

Ozbenno · Apr 6, 2012

Got it, will have a look at the save and post thoughts in the next couple of days

Sleepless · Apr 7, 2012

@C63 Good point about Toku possibly giving us aesthetics so going for philosophy seems better. What I would do though is tech at 0% so any spare money we have can go towards lit/music.

adrianj · Apr 8, 2012

Agree with c63 and sleepless to go at 0%. I've experienced the AI significantly dropping their peace deal offer after you've taken a few cities and their capital.

SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Fly Fly Away

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Fly Fly Away

Deity

Deity

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