New civ linked to new resource

QUOTE=Luckystrike77;12356439]Their the only ones with the TV-antenna ressource Attached to their heads? [/QUOTE]

Weeeeelll suppose you could say that
But I was thinking more Tripods and Red Weed :3


This kinda thing

Luckystrike77 said:

Venice will allow for a UU for a unit that still isn't covered by UU's. The galleas. It would be perfected at protecting the new sea trade routes, and perfectly fit that theme.

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Like this?

He means that it would replace the galleass, I think.

Bonci said:

He means that it would replace the galleass, I think.

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Yep, it would be a UU afterall, and the non-brainer choice for Venice.

Venice were the prominent users of the Galleas. It would be like having a Greek unique unit replace the Trireme.

Remembering what he said, gotta agree with the logic that it has to be something so obviously associated with a civilization to be a dead giveaway.

So far Sioux/Bison and (to a lesser extent) Inuit/Seals and Belgium/chocolate sound most plausible. If someone said glass would be a resource I'm not sure you'd be able to conclude Venice was in, despite the obvious linkages. There would seem to be too many sources for any one civ to be obviously linked to rice, rubber, tobacco, tea, coffee, etc.

Then again, how about Apache/Navajo and peyote? Assuming the ratings problems could be overcome it would make perfect sense and make for some fun unique abilities...

If you think including Popey would have been bad PR, imagine the problems if you made Peyote a resource... (Although historically in Mesoamerica it appears there was trade of it)

Sioux seem entirely unlikely at this point - and while we can't rule them out, we have gotten some hints that they don't want to take the lazy way out with a Native American civ again after the criticism with Civ 4

cybrxkhan said:

At this point I'm thinking a manufactured good would be more likely (for some group known for making a certain thing, like purple dyes and Phoenicia (except Phoenicia has almost no chance of getting in in my opinion, that was more an example)

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This would be a perfect example of one that actually would fit. If they announced that the new resource was murex, then that would be a pretty good giveaway that the Phoenicians were in. The connection there is actually inevitable, unlike all this "rubber would have to mean Kongo" or "glass would have to mean Venice" nonsense.

And actually, I'm not so sure the Phoenicians are quite as unlikely as all that. I now think they may be a potential candidate at least, for three reasons.

1. With the new Trade Route system, they'll want civs that are known for trade so they can work in the Trade Routes to their UA. The Phoenicians are known for very little else. A UA involving extra Trade Routes, say, would be perfect for them.

2. As far as resource/civ connections where the resource would have to mean the civ was in, murex/Phoenicia would actually be a very strong one. In my opinion, it's the strongest suggested here so far. (Buffalo/Sioux and seals/Inuit are the only other contenders I've seen that I think would fit.)

3. We've seen, with the news about France that came today, that they are willing to completely overhaul the UA of an existing civ. So it could be that Dido's "Phoenician Heritage" is out--or at least trimmed down to the mountain-crossing thing and renamed. Maybe the free Harbors would go to Phoenicia instead. Maybe not. At any rate, the fact that the Carthaginian UA is currently called "Phoenician Heritage" no longer counts as evidence that Phoenicia itself is out.

None of this means, by the way, that I think it is Phoenicia. I'm not going to clamp on to Phoenicia like a mad dog and insist, in the face of all counter-arguments, that NO REALLY GUYS IT IS PHOENICIA. I only say it would fit with what we've been told so far, when very few of the other suggestions I've seen do. As happy as I would be if it were Phoenicia, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're not in and it's someone else entirely.

If someone says chocolate I immediately think Switzerland, not Belgium.

cecilbturtle said:

So far Sioux/Bison and (to a lesser extent) Inuit/Seals and Belgium/chocolate sound most plausible.

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Belgium/chocolate doesn't work at all. Chocolate is native to Mexico and was quite beloved by the Aztecs, it is mostly grown in West Africa, and is manufactured and sold by a lot of countries that aren't Belgium. France and Switzerland, for example, are also known for having quality chocolate. (Hell, even the United States has Ghirardelli.) There would be no reason for the introduction of a chocolate resource to be a dead giveaway that Belgium was in.

You know, it hasnt been heralded THAT strongly that it could be Belgium, but that could fit on a number of points. They do like to try and mix things up and include bits from different eras, and Chocolate as a produced resource to mark the modern, non-tyrannical parts of Belgian history definitely seems like something they'd do. It'd also be a major player in the scramble for Africa, assuming Portugal were in its really only them and Italy left on the European side.

Loaf Warden said:

This would be a perfect example of one that actually would fit. If they announced that the new resource was murex, then that would be a pretty good giveaway that the Phoenicians were in. The connection there is actually inevitable, unlike all this "rubber would have to mean Kongo" or "glass would have to mean Venice" nonsense.

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If England can have exclusively the Ship-of-the-Line, then saying Venice exclusively has glass does not seem to be nonsense to me. Glass alone may not necessarily invoke the necessity of Venice, but I doubt they would have a resource that could not exist, realistically, without a civ. The idea to attribute a unique resource would have likely been concieved after the civ was concieved.

Arkangelus said:

You know, it hasnt been heralded THAT strongly that it could be Belgium, but that could fit on a number of points. They do like to try and mix things up and include bits from different eras, and Chocolate as a produced resource to mark the modern, non-tyrannical parts of Belgian history definitely seems like something they'd do. It'd also be a major player in the scramble for Africa, assuming Portugal were in its really only them and Italy left on the European side.

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But could they include Belgium without controversy over the language that their leader would speak?

JFD said:

If England can have exclusively the Ship-of-the-Line, then saying Venice exclusively has glass does not seem to be nonsense to me.

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this is why i don't really care for the argument that the new resource has to be deeply tangled (= closely associated due to our historical stereotypes) with the civ

From Wikipedia:

What made Venetian Murano glass significantly different was that the local quartz pebbles were almost pure silica, and were ground into a fine clear sand that was combined with soda ash obtained from the Levant, for which the Venetians held the sole monopoly.
[...]
The Venetian ability to produce this superior form of glass resulted in a trade advantage over other glass producing lands. Murano’s reputation as a center for glassmaking was born when the Venetian Republic, fearing fire might burn down the city’s mostly wood buildings, ordered glassmakers to move their foundries to Murano in 1291. Murano's glassmakers were soon the island’s most prominent citizens. Glassmakers were not allowed to leave the Republic. Many took a risk and set up glass furnaces in surrounding cities and as far afield as England and the Netherlands.

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I think it's fairly unique.

spoiler... its Mexico with tacos...
on a more serious note i REALLY hope they dont put Venice in, one more, i repeat one more european civ ought to be included and thats Portugal. venice in no way is worthy of inclusion in this game as a full scale civ! would venice even have enough cities to compose a city list? anyway im still hoping for the mixed luxury/strategic resource hemp...

JFD said:

If England can have exclusively the Ship-of-the-Line, then saying Venice exclusively has glass does not seem to be nonsense to me. Glass alone may not necessarily invoke the necessity of Venice,

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Exactly. Glass alone does not invoke the necessity of Venice. What Dennis Shirk actually said was that he cannot tell us the new resource, because it would give away one of the new civs. To me, that indicates a connection as strong as, say, tulips and the Dutch. Glass comes from a lot of places that aren't Venice, and it would be entirely possible to add a glass resource without making Venice a civ.

Now, I'll be the first to admit it's possible he didn't mean that quite literally, and he just meant it's a connection some people would make without it being actually inevitable. Maybe it is an option that I've dismissed. Even Venice and glass. But going by what he actually said, the implication is that the connection between the new civ and the new resource is much stronger than that between glass as a general resource and Venice.

And of course name-checking Venice itself by calling it "Venetian Glass" would give it away. So what? Putting any civ's name right in the resource name would give it away. If it were "Ceylonese Tea" it would give away that the new civ is Sri Lanka. So what? It's a pretty weak argument to say that because glass itself wouldn't do it, they must have put the civ's name right in there and that means that's what it is. I think that's rather an indication that it's less likely to be glass and Venice if one has to resort to such tricks to make it even work. But hey, none of us knows what it is. Maybe it is Venice and glass. Maybe it's Finland and Finnish Folk Music. It's too soon to tell.

PhilBowles said:

bringing rice back wouldn't lead to any expectation at all that it's associated with a specific civ.

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Except for maybe China, but that's an obvious moot point

Loaf Warden said:

Now, I'll be the first to admit it's possible he didn't mean that quite literally, and he just meant it's a connection some people would make without it being actually inevitable. Maybe it is an option that I've dismissed. Even Venice and glass. But going by what he actually said, the implication is that the connection between the new civ and the new resource is much stronger than that between glass as a general resource and Venice.

And of course name-checking Venice itself by calling it "Venetian Glass" would give it away. So what? Putting any civ's name right in the resource name would give it away. If it were "Ceylonese Tea" it would give away that the new civ is Sri Lanka. So what? It's a pretty weak argument to say that because glass itself wouldn't do it, they must have put the civ's name right in there and that means that's what it is. I think that's rather an indication that it's less likely to be glass and Venice if one has to resort to such tricks to make it even work. But hey, none of us knows what it is. Maybe it is Venice and glass. Maybe it's Finland and Finnish Folk Music. It's too soon to tell.

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Perhaps. But then... "Mughal Fort," "Maori Warrior," "Mohawk Warrior," "Norwegian Ski Infantry," etc. tell us that "Venetian Glass" is not a stretch and certainly the renown of Venetian glass does not stand alone as the only argument favouring Venice for inclusion.

Personally, I don't take Shirk's statement quite so literally as to suggest this resource cannot exist without this civ, or rather that this resource would only be regarded by virtue of this civ, because I cannot think of too many resources that would fit this condition whilst maintaining a need for a civ which wouldn't be too obscure or disconnected with the expansion.

If it is was revealed that "Glass" was the new luxury resource tied to an unspecified civ, I would guess that that new civ was Venice. I can't apply that to any other manufactured resource other than Tyrian dye, but this is far less likely than Venetian glass. Until a more reputable manufactured good is presented, I maintain that Venice is this civ (unless this resource is actually natural, in which case the possibilities may be a little more diverse).

Arkangelus said:

A unique resource with the new trading mechanic would also mean that your trade routes would always produce more gold as a byproduct, which does kinda fit Venice as a trade civ.

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But that's already arabia's UA and I'm sure there will be no massive changes, based on historical examples in these games

How about the Afghans & lapis lazuli as a luxury resource?