Venice discussion

I thought that they only convert culture into tourism, and not all culture.

It's not a conversion. They don't TURN culture into tourism. The generate an amount of Tourism based on the amount of culture generated by Wonders and tile improvements (*.5). So they don't do it solely by themselves, but they do generate Tourism.
 
Venice has the policy benchmarks of an OCC while they'll produce many times the culture of an actual one, so it will blaze through policy trees, probably faster than Poland. I wouldn't be surprised you can complete 6 SP trees by the end at leisure.
 
I've just been wondering about something quite important regarding Venice.

What kind of victory is this civ best suited for?


A scientific victory would be slower and harder to achieve than with other civs, and not only because puppets have a 25% penalty on science, but mainly because the capital will have to build all the spaceship parts by itself. I have confirmed through the xml that spaceship parts are still unavailable for purchase.

A diplomatic victory is somehow antithetic to Venice's unique ability. Puppetting city states has the effect of reducing the number of city states in the game, which leads to more competition and a harder acquisition of side votes. This still looks like one of the best viable option for Venice given the fact that it's a civ with a strong economy, but it's ironic that you'll end up getting in your own way.

A domination victory certainly isn't out of the question and with the ability to buy on puppets you can still build happiness buildings, units and what you need in order to keep waging your wars. However Venice is tailored around trade, and too many wars might end up crippling its economic options.

A cultural victory is still possible but right now what matters is no longer the number of policies but the production of tourism. Buildings, which are the only thing that you could buy in puppets, do not produce any tourism. What you want are improvement that yeild culture, great works and wonders, and in a puppet you can neither build a wonder nor have the ability to decide to work landmarks, nor the option to place great works.
Venice will have to rely on its capital, which makes the path to cultural victory harder compared to other civs.

So which is, in your opinion, the easier option for Venice to win. Which path would you rather take?

Spaceship parts can be purchased with a Level 3 Freedom Tenet.. so the bigger issue is the puppet science penalty.

Science Venice... since puppets have a science penalty, I'd focus on a super capital... (Tradition/Freedom)
Puppet a Few CS
Use your Extra Trade routes to feed the Capital AND Collect money.
Whenever your Capital Growth slows and your Happiness rises, Puppet some rivals ally and get another feeder town.
Big Capital=lots of science and lots of gold
Finally get the Freedom Tenet and buy all your space ship parts with gold in the last few turns.

Domination Venice.
Puppet many CS
Use Extra Trade routes to send food And production to Venice (or other portions of your empire that need production for happiness buildings)...
Get gold from Trade posts and city connections with mega capital.
Standard attack, Puppet Everything, buy as you need to.
[go Autocracy for easy happiness and cheap unit purchase]


Diplomatic Venice
Puppet few CS
Use Trade routes for Lots of gold
Buy CS you can get (and have trade routes with them), puppet ones that are in the hands of a difficult rival.
Standard diplomacy, liberate/defend.


Cultural Venice
Puppet a moderate number of CS
Use Trade routes to fuel Venice, food for Specialists, production for Wonders and Archaeologists.
[extra cities don't give much... unless you have a tourism religion,
ie Reformation belief=Tourism from religious buildings + 2 Religious follower beliefs.
OR
Culture from land tiles (pantheon belief) + Hotels, Airports


I think diplomatic is best... but Trade routes are very flexible.
 
I've just been wondering about something quite important regarding Venice.

What kind of victory is this civ best suited for?


A scientific victory would be slower and harder to achieve than with other civs, and not only because puppets have a 25% penalty on science, but mainly because the capital will have to build all the spaceship parts by itself. I have confirmed through the xml that spaceship parts are still unavailable for purchase.
There's a freedom tennent where you can buy starship parts, therefor Venice should be about to buy them and buy them in puppets.
 
On Venice's leader screen, while I've seen a video on youtube, I can't see it really well, so for those who already have BNW, is Dandolo depicted as blind, and if so, how well have they done a job with it?>
 
On Venice's leader screen, while I've seen a video on youtube, I can't see it really well, so for those who already have BNW, is Dandolo depicted as blind, and if so, how well have they done a job with it?>

They know he is blind, so I assume so.
 
Well the reason I'm asking because from what I saw of the youtube video it looked like as if he was looking straight at the screen as if he saw me, though it's hard to tell since the video quality wasn't great.

Either that or he's so Emperor Palpantine evil that he can see you even if he's blind.
 
In my game as Venice, culture focus wasn't going well. Detours for Great-Merchant wonders and trade-route helped me get to 5 cities by ~1500 but Parthenon and Sistine were both lost despite being my secondary focuses (this was on Emperor). Archeology was a long way off because tech was crawling despite observatory in the capital and 18 food pumping in.

(In three of the games I played in B&W it wasn't easy to dominate wonders despite decent starts. Only as Poland did I get enough of an edge on the culture techs.)

Anyway if I was going to finish that game I would go with Domination, I've got enough money to buy a privateer every 3 turns and my capital finally expanded to that 4-tile away iron that I revealed two eras ago.

But I'm not going to finish it. Anything I do would be too much of a break from the character of the game too far and would feel tacked-on and pointless. Venice's story feels like it is over after Middle Ages.
 
Well the reason I'm asking because from what I saw of the youtube video it looked like as if he was looking straight at the screen as if he saw me, though it's hard to tell since the video quality wasn't great.

Either that or he's so Emperor Palpantine evil that he can see you even if he's blind.
His blindness is kind of subtly depicted I think. While other leaders tend to 'look around the room' he tends to barely move his eyes while titling his head around. His eyes also roll a bit under his eyelids when he is angry. His general gaze is just kind of there as opposed to an active part of his expression.

He does appear to be looking in your direction though his pupils are heavily contracted and tilted slightly upward. I don't think Dandolo was completely blind though, he would probably have been able to see enough of an image to know what direction to face.

There is one point where he seems to move his eyes to stare directly at you which is a bit at odds with the rest of his demeanor.
 
One thing I learned the hard way with Venice is that if you found a religion, you have to be careful about protecting it from a conversion by a Great Prophet. If that happens and your 12-14 trade routes start spreading someone else's religion, there really is no way back.
 
Spaceship parts can be purchased with a Level 3 Freedom Tenet.. so the bigger issue is the puppet science penalty.

Science Venice... since puppets have a science penalty, I'd focus on a super capital... (Tradition/Freedom)
Puppet a Few CS
Use your Extra Trade routes to feed the Capital AND Collect money.
Whenever your Capital Growth slows and your Happiness rises, Puppet some rivals ally and get another feeder town.
Big Capital=lots of science and lots of gold
Finally get the Freedom Tenet and buy all your space ship parts with gold in the last few turns.

Domination Venice.
Puppet many CS
Use Extra Trade routes to send food And production to Venice (or other portions of your empire that need production for happiness buildings)...
Get gold from Trade posts and city connections with mega capital.
Standard attack, Puppet Everything, buy as you need to.
[go Autocracy for easy happiness and cheap unit purchase]


Diplomatic Venice
Puppet few CS
Use Trade routes for Lots of gold
Buy CS you can get (and have trade routes with them), puppet ones that are in the hands of a difficult rival.
Standard diplomacy, liberate/defend.


Cultural Venice
Puppet a moderate number of CS
Use Trade routes to fuel Venice, food for Specialists, production for Wonders and Archaeologists.
[extra cities don't give much... unless you have a tourism religion,
ie Reformation belief=Tourism from religious buildings + 2 Religious follower beliefs.
OR
Culture from land tiles (pantheon belief) + Hotels, Airports


I think diplomatic is best... but Trade routes are very flexible.

Thanks for these suggestions ! I'd like any one to weigh in on my ideology/Victory type choices in the following game.

I'm currently playing Venice on Emperor, Continents, Small Map. So far, I've puppeted 3 CS (2 on my continents for early expansion, 1 on the other one as an advanced base for my military), and I'm currently finishing off Egypt to get hold of all their beautiful Wonders ;) (which means already 2, soon 3 additional puppets).

Now that I reached the Industrial age, I see only Polynesia as my most serious rival (he's going most likely for a Diplo victory): Denmark is a laggard, and my Swedish and Polish friends seem controllable. I am tech leader, but with a slight margin (say 2 techs ahead of the pack); on the other hand I'm swimming in gold and have unquestionably the biggest army on the map.

I attach my last save of yesterday in case s.o. wants to take a look. Any comments or suggestions will be extremely appreciated !
 

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  • Enrico Dandolo_0238 - 1640 ap. J.-C..Civ5Save
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Well the reason I'm asking because from what I saw of the youtube video it looked like as if he was looking straight at the screen as if he saw me, though it's hard to tell since the video quality wasn't great.

Either that or he's so Emperor Palpantine evil that he can see you even if he's blind.

He's depicted as being blind, but for some reason loves expansively gesturing towards his backdrop as though to show off the sights - they don't seem to have paid attention to mannerisms appropriate for a blind person.
 
Well, he's still Italian. Italians gesture with their hands ;)
 
I think diplomatic is best... but Trade routes are very flexible.

I concur.

I just completed a very enjoyable diplomatic victory as Venice (king, standard, normal, continents) in 2013 (nice coincidence!). It was a very slow rise up the ranking scale. I was near the bottom for the first 50 turns and was only in third place when I won (the Ottomans were way ahead in first place).

At my peak I had 900 GPT. This enabled me to ally with the 9 CS's I didn't puppet. Eventually I ran out of useful things to buy in my 6 cities, and redirected 6 caravans to add food and production to the capital. I was also up to 1500 science a turn by the end, and that was under Order. I chose Order to align with the dominate culture countries.

My army was always big and up to date which discouraged invasion. My only real threat was losing through culture from Brazil (she was 2 countries away from winning by 1950), but the long Ottoman/Brazil war slowed her down.

It was a very satisfying Civ game!
 
Ok, every game I've attempted to play as Venice, there aren't any civs/CS placed nearby! It's incredibly frustrating getting these great resource/no trade partner starts because I inevitably begin to stagnate as waves of barbs pour down on me. This is a Large, 10civ 20CS, Standard pace, Prince (I lowered difficulty to see if maybe that was biasing a more barren start . . . nope).
Why does this keep happening to me!?

One time I was at the very tip of a giant C-curve peninsula about 40 tiles long, completely cutting me off from everyone. Another, on the mouth of a wide bay with no other CS/civ for 27 tiles. This time, I appear to be on an island populated solely by barbarians. There have been countless fruitless starts! I'm starting to feel a little frustrated, especially with the incredibly long load times.

 
Woah, I've never seen such a terrible start for Venice. That's bad luck.
 
Don't know if this has already been stated in the thread but, city-state gifted Conquistadors CAN found fully functioning Venetian cities (production, citizen management etc all fully controllable).

Game named mine "Viana do Castelo"
 
Don't know if this has already been stated in the thread but, city-state gifted Conquistadors CAN found fully functioning Venetian cities (production, citizen management etc all fully controllable).

Game named mine "Viana do Castelo"

I wonder if they'll patch name;

As expected, they just grab name from other civs; Viana do Castelo is Portuguese.
 
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