Moonlanding a hoax?

:)

Well, fwiw, the examination of the line in regards to the moon and so on, is only of peripheral value in this affair. I haven't had any incentive to read about the landing a lot, cause there are many issues of clearly bigger importance anyway and it is not an interest of mine for other reasons either, however it is again worth noting that the vast majority of the population has very little knowledge of space/the moon/physics related to a moon landing (myself included) so accepting or not accepting that landing happened is not really unrelated to "faith". Quite the contrary, even if it is faith to the government/media and so on.

Don't know if it happened or not, and i doubt i will ever care. But by now it is pretty obvious that the governments and media can make stuff up, maybe even of this magnitude. Doubting may not be based on evidence either, but by itself it does not have to be non-rational.
 
They can make up some things, but they can't make up everything.

For example, they can't make up the International Space Station. Do you know how I know that? Because we can confirm one way or the other through a telescope. Likewise, governments have sophisticated tracking equipment. They need this equipment for many reasons, not the least of which, to ensure that someone isn't launching an ICBM at them. With this equipment, it's very difficult to launch something deep into space without other nations knowing about it. Likewise, it's difficult to say you launched something deep into space without other nations noticing that it's not there. So you can't fake a moon landing without all other major powers being in on the hoax.
 
^Yeah, i am (obviously) agreeing on that important point. No evidence either way, one can just expand the 'conspiracy' to all those governments. However doesn't it mostly become a question of just repeating to ask if one does not believe the word of governments and so on?

Of course that this can easily lead to more despair is one of the reasons i do not care about such issues (eg moon landing). That we have become so distanced from most inventions (in regards to knowing how they work) inevitably creates a faith-based culture, even if there was no intent for that.
 
There's tons of Apollo hardware sitting on the moon too that you can see if you have a good enough telescope, plus there's the retro-reflectors placed there that we use to range to the moon all the time.

And the thousands of people that were employed by the program, and dozens of astronauts, and all the hardware that was developed and now provides real world technology, and so on. There is no reason to doubt that it happened.
 
Kyriakos said:
^Considering the patent/rights craze in the US, one would expect in that case the writer of the phrase to have become known by now :mischief:
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Nevermind. Got it, you are jelly.

History_Buff said:
Indeed, Armstrong had known for at least a month that he was commanding the crew that would make the first landing attempt, and Armstrong and Aldrin had been on the moon for hours before they actually began preparation for the EVA, so it's not like he had to come up with it on the spot.

Nor is it the first thing he said on the surface of the moon either. The first word spoken from the surface is probably "shutdown", which Armstrong spoke immediately after the LM settled on the moon. There was also lots of comm traffic between Armstrong, Aldrin and Houston when the EVA began, Armstrong's famous line was uttered when he first stepped off the spacecraft.
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This. From the Earth to the Moon does a pretty good job of sticking to the transcripts here.



(Also, yeah, it happened conspiracy nuts. I'd link to the Onion front page if not for the language rules on the forum.)
 
The evidence that whatever landed on the Moon was actually manned is not particularly strong, but its still there, so most likely the Americans were on the Moon. (And even if they didnt, who really cares.). Basically maneuvering was too complex to be made per radio link from Earth.
 
By the unreasonable standard of proof being applied to the Moon landing, we would be forced to conclude that virtually everything that ("ostensibly") happened to everybody before the end of the 19th century or so was untrue.

On those grounds, I suggest that this thread be moved out of "World History", since it obviously has nothing to do with history, into a subforum that is more appropriate. Perhaps "Humor and Jokes" would be best.
 
Roller123 said:
The evidence that whatever landed on the Moon was actually manned is not particularly strong...
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Yes it is, because literally all of the evidence points to it being manned.
 
History_Buff said:
Yes it is, because literally ...
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Unmanned landing happened a decade before that. The difficulty in navigating a larger vessel is the saving grace that differentiates it from a returnable probe like the Russian Luna 16. (later with moon rovers as well). What "literally all" evidence are you referring to?
 
The thousands of people who worked with the astronauts to build manned spacecraft and a plethora of other technology, all the transcripts of the missions, the assorted video footage of astronauts in the capsules, the video footage of astronauts on the moon, the pictures that likely could not have been taken by remote, and finally, the testimony from 24 astronauts that all agrees pretty perfectly even decades after the fact.


More importantly, the only thing that would suggest that it wasn't manned is various crackpots trying to twist facts based on assumption that it was faked.
 
Besides which, why are we allowed to assume the unmanned mission actually happened? Shouldn't we keep up this level of skepticism?
 
How do we even know we have a moon? Why is it the Sun and Moon are never up at the same time - are they maybe actually the same person!?!?! Can't explain that
 
History_Buff said:
The thousands of people
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In other words you dont have any evidence other than some slogans. Thats why this topic doesnt die. People who believe in the Moon landing meet people who believe in the Moon hoax, and keep arguing based straight on conviction. Although really thats not surprising at all. thousand of years ago it was whose God is better, now its the Moon landing. People stay the same.


ParkCungHee said:
Besides which, why are we allowed to assume the unmanned mission actually happened? Shouldn't we keep up this level of skepticism?
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The moon landing is actually proven. Twice even, the Russians obviously kept track of it. Then there was some Japanese probe flying over the landing zone. And ofc the remains are visible from Earth too, so thats not an issue. ( neither is whether it was manned, like said the automation just wasnt as advanced as today so it is likely Neil Armstrong was indeed on the Moon surface)
 
Roller123 said:
Thats why this topic doesnt die. People who believe in the Moon landing meet people who believe in the Moon hoax, and keep arguing based straight on conviction.
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Nope, you don't just get to put normal rational people on the same pedestal as fringe conspiracy theorists as if both outlooks are mutually valid. The only people who have irrational convictions, or any real stake in this subject at all are the desperate moonbats who like to here themselves talk. That's all there is to it.

By the way, the moon landing hoax topic/debate is dead and has been dead for many years now. The only discussion here it seems is how looney the idea is.
 
Roller123 said:
In other words you dont have any evidence other than some slogans. Thats why this topic doesnt die. People who believe in the Moon landing meet people who believe in the Moon hoax, and keep arguing based straight on conviction. Although really thats not surprising at all. thousand of years ago it was whose God is better, now its the Moon landing. People stay the same.
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He means that it'd be impossible to keep secret. Which isn't faith, it's logic.
 
Nah, that's why they killed the Apollo 1 crew. They were going to talk so NASA murdered them and then there was a massive public investigation and Congressional hearings and fortunately not one of the other thousands of employees made a peep and wait a minute, there was still loads of people sniffing around in their business. Yeah, that doesn't make sense at all.
 
North King said:
He means that it'd be impossible to keep secret. Which isn't faith, it's logic.
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Yes, so i figured. And no doubt he believes in this "logic" much like the ancient people believed in the Sun god going around the Earth in his golden chariot. Cause, newsflash logic isnt proof, and far stranger things have happened in the world than keeping a hundred people silent. Happens even on a daily basis, called NDA. But, ofc arguing with believers is a risky undertaking, not sure why im doing it, mb because im bored.
 
The stuff is still up there on the Moon, the vehicles assembled and used to make the trip are mathematically capable of doing so, there are tons of photographs, mission records, data, samples, etc. from the missions. And the conspiracy nutjobs have nothing but a bunch of garbage as demonstrated recently on Mythbusters amongst other places.

So what is your beef with the moon landings anyway?
 
Roller123 said:
In other words you dont have any evidence other than some slogans. Thats why this topic doesnt die. People who believe in the Moon landing meet people who believe in the Moon hoax, and keep arguing based straight on conviction. Although really thats not surprising at all. thousand of years ago it was whose God is better, now its the Moon landing. People stay the same.
Click to expand...

But what about all the other things I listed? All of the photo and video evidence, all the technology developed, all the hardware that's still sitting on the moon. That is evidence.
 
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