Forests

Synthshadow · Apr 26, 2005

Compared to a lot of threads on CIV 4 this is going to seem VERY limp -wristed. But I figured that if Skybuck can get replies to his :groucho:

then I may as well give it a go!

As we all know in real life trees feed off the Carbon Dioxide that is produced in the world, end of science lesson. When I play any Civ game When I find a patch of land Iam not working I plant a forest there, even better in Alpha Centauri when the forest spread on its own! That was a neat touch which should be implemented, self spreading forest, ALSO i think that the more forests are planted, that combats pollution in some way. I hear pollution's going to be taken out and replaced, but I think the forest idea had merit if its not going to be removed completely.

dh_epic · Apr 26, 2005

The tricky thing would be tying forests to health rather than pollution. Maybe having a forest in your city radius would promote health for that city? And yet, jungles were a source of disease in Civ 3. The world is so complicated.

mastertyguy · Apr 26, 2005

It could be a good idea. Another one would more complex terrain changing feature. In civ3, it only changes due to pollution. It could also change because it is over-exploited (plain=>desert), or sea level getting higher (maybe coast line going backward? not sure of that one, but at least loos of population) and other thigns like that.

Trade-peror · Apr 28, 2005

Environmental dynamics such as the growth of forests, desertification of overused grasslands/plains, soil erosion due to lack of vegetation, and even swamp/marsh overgrowth due to mineral pollution (eutrophication) would be very nice steps toward making the Civ world a live and breathing world, not some cyberspace battlefield disguised as squares of dead "forests" and "hills."

(By the way, all of these ideas would also tie into my "natural mechanisms" game philosophy.)

sir_schwick · Apr 28, 2005

Synthshadow said:
Compared to a lot of threads on CIV 4 this is going to seem VERY limp -wristed. But I figured that if Skybuck can get replies to his then I may as well give it a go!

When I first saw that I thought you were going to begin with a discussion of wanting to rape Skybuck's dad or something similar. On forests being tied into health/and or pollution; very good. Deforestation should somehow be tied into erosion as well and vice versa.

dexters · Apr 28, 2005

Synthshadow said:
Compared to a lot of threads on CIV 4 this is going to seem VERY limp -wristed. But I figured that if Skybuck can get replies to his then I may as well give it a go!

Skybuck was just playing the odds. He posted something like 10 threads, one of them was bound to hit a nerve and get a bunch of people to respond. As the rest of his 'crappy' posts suggesting we turn Civ4 into an FPS gets pushed down, more people come along and just sees his one thread. They probably don't even know the guy spammed the forums. :sad:

As we all know in real life trees feed off the Carbon Dioxide that is produced in the world, end of science lesson. When I play any Civ game When I find a patch of land Iam not working I plant a forest there, even better in Alpha Centauri when the forest spread on its own! That was a neat touch which should be implemented, self spreading forest, ALSO i think that the more forests are planted, that combats pollution in some way. I hear pollution's going to be taken out and replaced, but I think the forest idea had merit if its not going to be removed completely.

Interesting idea. Since pollution is being reworked, this might be the direction Firaxis is heading into.

My only problem with it is that Civ3 and all the Civ games are heavily tile driven. Maximizing tile output to maximum efficiency is what makes a strong empire in terms of production, commerce (which is related to science) and food. I'm not sure how a tree system to combat pollution will affect the late game. And how would the AI handle this? Might be another Human advantage thing which I don't really want to see more of in the Civ franchise.

Naokaukodem · Apr 28, 2005

Trade-peror said:
desertification of overused grasslands/plains

Overused grasslands/plains does not desertificate. Happy for us civ players, or our capitals lands would become deserts after 20 turns!

Trade-peror · Apr 28, 2005

Naokaukodem said:
Overused grasslands/plains does not desertificate.

In Civ, or in real life? I know grasslands and plains don't become desert in Civ. But I think they can in real life, such as in the case of sub-Saharan Africa.

Graadiapolistan · Apr 28, 2005

Synthshadow said:
Compared to a lot of threads on CIV 4 this is going to seem VERY limp -wristed. But I figured that if Skybuck can get replies to his then I may as well give it a go!

As we all know in real life trees feed off the Carbon Dioxide that is produced in the world, end of science lesson. When I play any Civ game When I find a patch of land Iam not working I plant a forest there, even better in Alpha Centauri when the forest spread on its own! That was a neat touch which should be implemented, self spreading forest, ALSO i think that the more forests are planted, that combats pollution in some way. I hear pollution's going to be taken out and replaced, but I think the forest idea had merit if its not going to be removed completely.

forests can't spread everywhere. In real life forests cover whole contitnets, but after humans colonize it, the forests go away and don't spread back.

Trees don't really "feed" on carbon dioxide. I'm not going to get into the biomechanics of it. I do think forests and rainforests should have some effect on air quality, but not pollution. Pollution should kill forests, forests chouldn't kill pollution.

mastertyguy · Apr 28, 2005

Trade-peror said:
In Civ, or in real life? I know grasslands and plains don't become desert in Civ. But I think they can in real life, such as in the case of sub-Saharan Africa.

I don't know what he thinks, but in real life, grassland, considered humid, would never desertificates. Only plains could, dsert being arid plains in civ3

Graadiapolistan · Apr 28, 2005

mastertyguy said:
I don't know what he thinks, but in real life, grassland, considered humid, w
ould never desertificates. Only plains could, dsert being arid plains in civ3

almost any terrain can "desertify" in different conditions, look at the oklahoma dustbowl, it wasn't a desert, but close enough. If rainforets are not replanted or if the land is stripped they become deserts, the humidity doesn't matter

Naokaukodem · Apr 28, 2005

Trade-peror said:
In Civ, or in real life? I know grasslands and plains don't become desert in Civ. But I think they can in real life, such as in the case of sub-Saharan Africa.

In real life. I mean cultivated land won't turn into deserts with time.

Trade-peror · Apr 28, 2005

Naokaukodem said:
I mean cultivated land won't turn into deserts with time.

With proper terrain management, this is true. I was referring, however, to overuse of fertile land in my original post.

Also, I would like to clarify that I am using "desertification" simply to mean terrain becoming a drier type, not necessarily turning straight into desert. Grasslands or forests becoming plains, for example, I would consider "desertification," since it is on its way to eventually becoming a desert.

Naokaukodem · Apr 28, 2005

Graadiapolistan said:
I do think forests and rainforests should have some effect on air quality, but not pollution.

Pollution can be of many kinds, like sound. So why a kind of pollution (CO2, too much of it that is), could be converted by a life being? At early times, Earth was covered of bacterias than EATED the "bad" atmosphere and rejected O2 what was a pollution from those bacterias point of view, but not for 'us' (early ancestrors that is)... What is pollution?... so air quality is fully concerned by pollution.

Graadiapolistan · Apr 28, 2005

Naokaukodem said:
Pollution can be of many kinds, like sound. So why a kind of pollution (CO2, too much of it that is), could be converted by a life being? At early times, Earth was covered of bacterias than EATED the "bad" atmosphere and rejected O2 what was a pollution from those bacterias point of view, but not for 'us' (early ancestrors that is)... What is pollution?... so air quality is fully concerned by pollution.

I meant pollution in civ 3 (the orange vomit) ont real pollution, sorry if i was unclear

. I'm not that dumb

mastertyguy · Apr 28, 2005

I agree with Nao. Bad air=pollution. Do you think a polluted area has a red spot over it? Polluted rivers are CLEARER than usual.
EDIT You posted your answer while I was answering, sorry

Naokaukodem · Apr 28, 2005

Trade-peror said:
With proper terrain management, this is true. I was referring, however, to overuse of fertile land in my original post.

Also, I would like to clarify that I am using "desertification" simply to mean terrain becoming a drier type, not necessarily turning straight into desert. Grasslands or forests becoming plains, for example, I would consider "desertification," since it is on its way to eventually becoming a desert.

Ok. But in reality, I think that agriculture is concerned by overuse much more before the land can desertificate. So you will use fallows.

Naokaukodem · Apr 28, 2005

Graadiapolistan said:
I meant pollution in civ 3 (the orange vomit) ont real pollution, sorry if i was unclear . I'm not that dumb

Oh... OK. But Civ3 pollution is partially a result of air pollution.

mastertyguy · Apr 28, 2005

Maybe a %, like flips. It has x% every turn, and x= a union of different factors, I don't now which it could be.

Graadiapolistan · Apr 28, 2005

Naokaukodem said:
Oh... OK. But Civ3 pollution is partially a result of air pollution.

yea, true, but i hope civ 4 differentiates, i think that trees could limit air pollution, but other pollution kills 'em, so you have to be careful. that'd be cool

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