Pacific War Scenario thread

I have just started a project to create a Second Sino Japanese War and Pacific War scenario. The map which I just started on is going to be 102X64. This map will stretch from India to western North America. What I need help with are city names, terrain, resource placement, and anything that can be useful. Names of ships, army units, anything like that will help me immensely. I want to start with a 1937 scenario to begin with at the onset of the Second Sino Japanese War. Then later create a December 1941 scenario start.

Like I said though, any historical buffs out there who know about these wars, your advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Anyone else who has any input about anything at all which could be helpful to me completing this would again be very appreciated. Recently, I have visited my local library and purchased a few books online so I can do some research and learn more about this terrible but fascinating time in our history. Thanks again for any help.

My map is coming along pretty good. I still have a ways to go. It's going to have important strategic islands enlarged to replay WWII better. Japan will also be enlarged.

The first thing I am going to do with this map is submit it with true start locations. So, you can play from 4000 bc if you wish. Then I will start adding cities etc for my version for the Pacific scenario.

The I-400 was a Japanese submersible aircraft carrier designed to get nuclear bombers into range of allied fleets and American naval yards and industrial centers. It would make an excellent end game "Japan wins" unit.

Magma_Dragoon said:

The I-400 was a Japanese submersible aircraft carrier designed to get nuclear bombers into range of allied fleets and American naval yards and industrial centers. It would make an excellent end game "Japan wins" unit.

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That sounds interesting. I don't know if that unit is available though.

Magma_Dragoon said:

submersible aircraft carrier

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Just omit the required trigger files from Danrell's units

whoward69 said:

Just omit the required trigger files from Danrell's units

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Nice! It's the Akagi!

If I saw a couple of those sailing toward me, I'd be terrified

I'd just figure I got myself inserted in a SHIELD movie...

This is awesome looking!

If we didn't have the bomb to end the war, very shortly we would have been facing a lot of these. Hidden in the mountains of Japan was a large jet plane industry. They took simple blueprints of the engines used for the Me-262 and built their own jet engine design. It was quite remarkable. The interesting thing is that Japan had severe fuel shortages by this stage in the war. I wonder if they had a synthetic fuel available for these aircraft as well. I know Germany was producing synthetic fuel.



Nakajima Kikka

General characteristics
•Crew: 1
•Length: 8.13 m (26 ft 8 in)
•Wingspan: 10.00 m (32 ft 10 in)
•Height: 2.95 m (9′ 9&#8243
•Wing area: 13.2 m² (142ft²)
•Empty weight: 2,300 kg (5,071 lb)
•Loaded weight: 3,507 kg (7,716 lb)
•Max. takeoff weight: 4,088 kg (8,995 lb)
•Powerplant: 2 × Ishikawajima Ne-20 turbojets, 4.66 kN (475 kgf) each

Performance
•Maximum speed: 695 km/h (433 mph)
•Range: 937 km (586 mi)
•Service ceiling: 12,303 m (39,370 ft)
•Rate of climb: 387 m/min (1,237 ft/min)

Armament
•Guns: 2 × 30 mm Type 5 cannon
•Bombs: 1 × 250 kg (551 lb), 500 kg (1,102 lb), or 800 kg (1,764 lb) bombs

For the Post-1941 part of your scenario, you'll want to look into the two main types of aircraft carrier deployed by the US. The Fleet Carrier and the 'Jeep' Carrier.

The Fleet Carrier was the mainline 'battle' carrier. Enterprise, Hornet, etc. Used to spank the enemy naval fleets and provide extra air power during invasions. They were faster than the battleships of the US Navy, and were somewhat armed, mostly against enemy air attack. The idea was that you never wanted the enemy fleet to get close enough to your carriers that you were trading ship-to-ship gunfire.

The 'Jeep' Carrier was slower, smaller, and essentially unarmed except for the aircraft it carried. It was primarily used in the Pacific War as an airfield to provide close air support to invasion troops. The aircraft it carried were often therefore of types which were either mechanically useless against enemy shipping or could only be effectively used against enemy shipping after a rather time-consuming (some hours required) conversion to carry anti-ship capable bombs or torpedoes. But even if the aircraft could be converted on the fly, the 'Jeep' carriers themselves often didn't carry the correct kind of bombs or torpedoes. During the battle of Leyte Gulf*, when Admiral Halsey was snookered by the Japanese Navy into charging off after the Japanese "main battle fleet", all that stood between the American invasion troops and a second (and third) Japanese fleet was some destroyers and a few 'Jeep' carriers. The 'Jeep' carriers sent their aircraft after the attacking Japanese, but the planes weren't particularly effective because the planes weren't properly equipped to attack shipping, nor were the pilots really trained for it. The US destroyers acting as escorts to the 'Jeep' carriers also charged in against the battleship and the cruisers of the attacking Japanese fleet. The prompt and rather suicidal attacks by the US navy convinced the Japanese admiral that there had to be more powerful "mainline" US Navy units in the vicinity, so he didn't press home his attack, but drew off after pounding the destroyers and a couple of the 'Jeep' carriers. If the Japanese admiral had understood the true situation, he could have pressed on and essentially annihilated the invasion troops ashore and thier supporting cargo and transport vessels.

Not sure exactly how you'd create the differences in terms of in-game naval units. Thing to remember is that unlike in the game (for the most part) naval ships that venture around the open sea without air cover are essentially tombs waiting to kill off thier crews. Fighters should be able to sink enemy ships nearly every time. It shouldn't require big heavy bombers to get the job done. At least in CIV5 the system is a little better than it was in CIV3, where unless you modified the combat system, all aircraft ever did was go *puff*, *puff*, oh, you missed, instead of going *BLAM*, you just sank an expensive battleship with your cheapo air unit.

Submarines were especially vulnerable to air attack during the day, but were safe from attack at night since no one during WWII really developed a good naval version of a night-capable aircraft. This was probably more to do with the difficulties involved in landing on aircraft carriers at night.

* pretty sure it was Leyte Gulf, and not forex, Coral Sea. Writing this from memory, not from a google fact-check search.

LeeS said:

For the Post-1941 part of your scenario, you'll want to look into the two main types of aircraft carrier deployed by the US. The Fleet Carrier and the 'Jeep' Carrier.

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I have heard of escort carriers (which were built in larger numbers later in the war) on the US side and the Japs used light carriers like the Shoho, for instance. Is that what you mean by 'Jeep' carrier? As far as adding them to the game it will be dependent on promotions for that particular carrier. Are they more armored so they hold less planes or vice versa? Before I place my navies, I'll try to find some kind of order of battle for the different carrier fleets involved.

On another note I am working on the southern half of the map. After that I will need to study up on where to place certain resources and so on.

nokmirt said:

I have heard of escort carriers (which were built in larger numbers later in the war) on the US side and the Japs used light carriers like the Shoho, for instance. Is that what you mean by 'Jeep' carrier? As far as adding them to the game it will be dependent on promotions for that particular carrier. Are they more armored so they hold less planes or vice versa?

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Yeah, same thing. They weren't armored. Some were created by taking obsolete naval vessels and chopping off everything above the main hull, then building an aircraft deck on that hull. Others were converted from liberty ships during the production process. The average liberty ship wasn't all that large. Later on I think escort carriers were built 'from the ground up' with the intention to be light-duty aircraft carriers, so were less exercises in compromise.

The escort carrier concept was originally developed to provide air coverage in the middle of the north atlantic. The allies found that the number of merchant ships losses decreased dramatically when the convoys were in range of shore-based aircraft armed with bombs / torpedoes. It was really hard for a WWII era submarine to 'hide' from an airplane unless the sub went deep and stayed there. But from there they couldn't effectively attack British shipping. If the sub didn't try to hide from an aircraft, chances were good the aircraft could sink the sub, or at the very least keep it under observation until a destroyer or other type of convey escort ship could get into position to drop depth charges.

The British at one point were so desperate that they experimented with catapult-launched aircraft. The catapult was added to the deck of a merchant ship, the plane loaded up, and then when at sea and the threat from submarines was at its peak the idea was that the merchant ship would launch the aircraft. The aircraft would then attack or scare off some number of subs, and when the plane ran out of fuel the pilot was supposed to ditch the plane and be picked up by one of the merchantmen. Erm. Ahem. Que scene of the pilot bobbing up and down in the waves as he watches the tail end of the convoy go steaming off into the distance.

LeeS said:

Yeah, same thing. They weren't armored.

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I realize they were not armored, but that is the way the promotions are set up in Civ 5.

Erm. Ahem. Que scene of the pilot bobbing up and down in the waves as he watches the tail end of the convoy go steaming off into the distance.

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And that would be just my luck! The British had to try anything by that point. They were just getting clobbered.

I wish we had a coral terrain tile, it looks like many of my islands will be desert.

The map is just about done at least the terrain and land masses anyway. I just need to add the Solomons, Fiji, and Samoan Islands. Then my question is where are the civ type resources located in the Pacific? I have to give Japan some oil, for instance (we could say this is their oil reserves.) This way they can have some tanks in 1937. And keep some battleships fueled. I have made it so, in my mod, oil is not required for planes to help the AI have larger air forces. It's something that I am testing anyway.

Ok I am going to list some resources here to get an idea where to place them.

Australia coal, iron, copper, gold, silver, uranium, gems, oil
note: Australia is the world's largest net exporter of coal accounting for 29% of global coal exports

Brunei oil

Burma oil, copper, coal, marble, gems

Cambodia oil, gems, iron

Canada iron, copper, gold, lead, gems, silver, fish, coal, oil, furs

China coal, iron, oil, aluminum, lead, uranium, cotton

Fiji fish, gold, copper, offshore oil potential

Guam fishing (largely undeveloped)

Hong Kong outstanding deepwater harbor

India coal (fourth-largest reserves in the world), iron, gems, oil, cotton

Indian Ocean oil, fish, crab

Indonesia oil, tin, copper, fertile soils, coal, gold, silver

Japan negligible mineral resources, fish
note: with virtually no energy natural resources, Japan is the world's largest importer of coal and liquefied natural gas, as well as the second largest importer of oil

Korea, North coal, iron, copper, gold, salt

Korea, South coal

Kyrgyzstan gold, coal, oil

Laos gold, gems

Malaysia oil, copper, iron

Mongolia oil, coal, copper, gold, silver, iron

Northern Mariana Islands fish

Pacific Ocean oil, fish, whales, crab

Palau minerals (especially gold)

Papua New Guinea gold, copper, silver, oil, fish

Philippines oil, silver, gold, salt, copper

Russia wide natural resource base including major deposits of oil, coal, and many strategic minerals, reserves of rare earth elements
note: formidable obstacles of climate, terrain, and distance hinder exploitation of natural resources, furs

Samoa fish

Singapore fish

Solomon Islands fish, gold

Taiwan small deposits of coal, marble

Thailand fish, could put some oil here

Timor-Leste gold, oil, marble

United States coal, copper, gold, iron, silver, tungsten, oil,
note: the US has the world's largest coal reserves with 491 billion short tons accounting for 27% of the world's total

Vietnam coal, offshore oil and gas deposits

Dyes can be found in China, Japan, India and southeast Asia

Citrus US, Japan on one island, China, India and southeast Asia

Sugar southeast Asia, India, New Guinea, Fiji, Burma, Malaysia, Queensland Australia

Ivory Siberia (narwhal, walrus, and wooly mammoth), India to Borneo (Asian elephant)

Incense (deserts and plains) China, India, Japan, US, Tibet, Mojave Desert (Brittlebrush)

Gobi Desert has gold and copper, incense?

Pearls South Pacific, Japan, California, Australia

Marble China and US

Salt China, US, Vietnam, Australia (found in plains, desert, and tundra)

Spices found in Asia

Silk China, southeast Asia, and Japan

Wine China, Australia, US

Truffles Pacific Northwest, Japan, China, India

This is a start anyway.

The map is officially done. Tomorrow I begin adding all the resources. Then I will add some TSLs and CSs for the TSL version of the map.

In case you haven't picked up on all of these as yet: WWII US Admirals

Ernest King
Chester W. Nimitz
William Halsey
Frank Fletcher
Raymond Spruance

LeeS said:

In case you haven't picked up on all of these as yet: WWII US Admirals

Ernest King
Chester W. Nimitz
William Halsey
Frank Fletcher
Raymond Spruance

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Thank you LeeS, if you can think of any more let me know. What would you think if I made the scenario last from 1919-1945 or 50? Each play turn would be a month of real time.

Today I am pouring over maps and trying to start my cities on the map. I decided to start with China first, Manchuria and so on.

nokmirt said:

Thank you LeeS, if you can think of any more let me know. What would you think if I made the scenario last from 1919-1945 or 50? Each play turn would be a month of real time.

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I think if you set up the opening of the scenario in such a way that the players have to develope thier way into the WWII situation it would be okay. By this I mean in 1919 Japan shouldn't be 'ready' to try to take over the pacific. Nor should the US be ready to roll over Japan in 1919 in a 'look, we declared war on the Japanese for no reason and in 20 turns we smacked the stuffing out of them, game over!' sort of a way. How you force the players into war at the appropriate time if they've not already done so 'naturally', I'm not sure.

The other thing you'll have to think about is the fact that one reason the Japanese were able to make some of their early territorial gains against England and the US was because of stupidity on the part of the English and the US. England took a calculated risk in weakening her far eastern defenses in favor of strengthening the home front and the middle-east -- it was a gamble they lost. So politically I've never felt the British acted stupidly in this regard. But their generals on the spot certainly did. Singapore. The US I think acted stupidly in a political sense throughout the run-up to the Pacific War, and then the generals and admirals on the spot did the best with what they had, which wasn't near as much as they should have had given the way FDR's administration was acting towards the Japanese regime. Not very smart to enact the various embargoes and what-not, and then not send more troops and equipment to the pacific. Also not real smart to base your entire fighting fleet in one harbor which could potentially be blocked if a single large ship were sunk in the entrance channel, and which was thousands of miles away from the nearest equally-large supporting military establishments.

The very first thing I would do if I were playing the allies in a war scenario that started in summer 1941, say, would be to not send the pacific fleet to Pearl Harbor. The second would be to more aggressively defend places such as Singapore. The third would be to base more aircraft in the pacific if possible. The fourth might be to attack Japan pre-emptively with my navy if I were allowed to by the game. If you only allow the human player to control the US when they play as the allies, and let the game control the British, Dutch, French, etc., in the Pacific, the general stupidity of the AI should pretty well mimic the mess and confusion on the Allied side throughout the Pacific from December 1941 to about June 1942.

LeeS said:

I think if you set up the opening of the scenario in such a way that the players have to develope thier way into the WWII situation it would be okay.

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I was going to set it up comparable to my WWI scenario. Which is to build up, get strong and then fight.

As far as what you said goes...you are very right. Americans were very isolationist and pacifist at this time in history. We didn't want to be involved in any squabbles outside the country. When Roosevelt tried to change that way of thinking by requesting a budget from Congress to build up the Pacific fleet. It was an uphill climb indeed. The other issue I read about was the Washington Naval Treaty, which put limitations how many ships the United Kingdom, the United States, Japan, France, and Italy could build. Basically our production didn't even match the 5:5:3 (3 Japan) ratio. It's absolutely laughable. We like Great Britain were so unprepared. We tried to rectify a very volatile situation with handsome looking scraps of paper instead of building larger armed forces. To be a dog you have to have a big bite.

The British also should have fortified Malaya better and should have had access to armor. The Japs beat them with speed, bicycles and tanks. Over 100,000 British and Commonwealth forces made to surrender, due to unpreparedness, is unforgivable.