European Union

Emerald_Knight

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
71
Location
Canada
Hi, also based this of Kael's Guide as well as my own Confederate States of America mod, let me know of any major bugs!

European Union.jpg

EUTyphoon.jpg

EULeader.jpg

EULoading.jpg

EUCentralBank.jpg
 
Great to see the European Union in the game... still waiting for an Arab League tho... or the Arab Empire with the Arab League flag/emblem... anychance of doing Brazil?
 
Don't you think that all special units and all traits of European Civs is a little overpowered? Do it have some disadvatages to balance the civ?

My proposal for disadvantages would be f.ex higher happiness cost for cities (2 instead of 1) to show how hard it is to make everyone happy is such multicultural enviroment?
 
That was just an example :) but there is some more I could think of, so you could choose to make the civ more balanced.

To be honest a civ with lot of advantages and lot of disadvantages is a good idea - it is uniqe and different then other :)


Other examples:
- EU, in the real world, pays villgers for not growing anything so maybe some food production penalty? I don't know how big, but I should not be too big or it will make the civ unplayable.
- EU has an army created of national armies (and because of that there is so much unique units) but it makes it cost higher - maybe 2Gold per Unit (GpU)?
- EU has some strict laws on Human Rights and Equality of Everyone, etc. - so maybe you could disable militaristic or non-democratic policy trees, to make the player play as a real EU (peace and love and social care for everyone inside :) )
- EU has a lot of beurocracy which makes things cost more - so maybe increased cost of production of all things (f.ex +10 or +20%) or double cost of "road maintanance"

Hope my ideas are helpfull :)
 
It'll take a few playthroughs to find the right balance of course, but "multicultural tensions" would be a start!
 
Lol now you know I'm a North American haha
Well, if Turkey gets admitted first then I'll replace Russia with the Ottomans, =)
 
Well, I guess, the idea is great, but you should do more "unions" and so on. Then they will be balanced.

I may suggest never-to-be Great Asian Empire (the beginning of the 20th century - Japan conquered Korea, almost all South-West Asia and a huge part of China) - so Japan, China, Siam, maybe India if you want. Also Arabian League mentioned before, Indian Brotherhood and superpowered US and Russia (USSR times). Should be fun to play. $)
 
Well, if Turkey gets admitted first then I'll replace Russia with the Ottomans, =)

Sorry that I point you out on this, but Russia isn't even trying to get into EU and it never will - it is more like a opposite power, on the other pole, to EU. The best they can offer on that is that they will annex EU one day :)

If I would like to compare it to Americas it would be like saying that USA is trying to access UNASUL, which is obviously not true and I suppouse never will be true :)

Turkey in EU - that is still under discussion but I don't think it will happen too soon either.

My point - if you want to be politically correct you should just remove Russia traits and units from UE civ, but from my point of view this is a game, not politics and you do what suits you :crazyeye:
 
This is a great idea !

Where do we get your mod ? It would be nice to see if all those unique units are really overpowering the UE.

Forget Turkey and Russia, those states don't belong to the UE.
Turkey may join sometime for political reasons but the fact is that historically it belongs to the Middle East. So does it's culture.
Russia is a superpower for itself, part in Asia and Part in Europe.

EU has an army created of national armies (and because of that there is so much unique units) but it makes it cost higher - maybe 2Gold per Unit (GpU)?
- EU has some strict laws on Human Rights and Equality of Everyone, etc. - so maybe you could disable militaristic or non-democratic policy trees, to make the player play as a real EU (peace and love and social care for everyone inside )
- EU has a lot of burocracy which makes things cost more - so maybe increased cost of production of all things (f.ex +10 or +20%) or double cost of "road maintanance"
Great ideas.

The food penalty is not so good because in Civ you cannot buy food from other states.
In the UE we pay villagers for not growing anything not because we don't know how to make food, juste because we would make too much. This is insane and crazy but it's like that!

I would suggest Konrad Adenauer and Robert Schuman as leaderheads for the EU
 
The Mod's is in the ModBrowser.

V.3 changes
Removed Russia lol!
Added the 2GPU for the Unique Units and increased production costs by 1.
 
Hi, also based this of Kael's Guide as well as my own Confederate States of America mod, let me know of any major bugs!

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Emerald Knight --

First off, good job putting together these civilizations. The community appreciates the efforts and look forward to seeing more of these.

One comment from my perspective....

AT THE MOMENT -- having a civ with strong advantages and equally strong disadvantages makes sense for a human player, but I would not be sure the AI is capable of handling it. As a result, I would suggest smaller advantages and no disadvantages to allow this civilization to be AI "usable".

I think the current set of advantages are just way too overpowered....

Some thoughts -- on the EU, maybe banks give a 50% bonus instead of a 33% bonus -- to represent the adoption of the EURO and economic efficiencies (given the role of gold, this could be a very huge advantage).

The Unique unit could be one of the others in the EU -- certainly not all of them. If I were to customize, I would probably go somewhere later in the game, such as infantry (maybe start with +30 XP to denote ability to pull from NATOish forces).

Maybe the EU trait is something like 10% reduction in social policy adoption given the multicultural nature of the EU.

For the CSA, having the attack twice component for all of the mounted, melee and gun units is also overpowered. Maybe this should be only with Cavalry units (to represent the CSA Cavalry).

Here, I think the current worker unit (3 moves) is OK -- maybe instead they do not require any gold maintenance -- maybe both?

As far as a unique building, maybe either Military Academies or Arsenals give 30 XP (or dare I say 45 XP) instead of 15 XP.

Maybe the CSA trait is in Military Honor -- similar to China's trait about the frequency and effectiveness of Great Generals.

Just some thoughts -- keep up the great work.

:goodjob:
 
(Summary of my suggestions in the bottom of this post)

By god - YES!
The European Union is an awesome idea! Though not a civilization in the actual sense of the word, being the europhile that I am, this is an extremely welcome addition.

Though, allow me to bring forth some criticism and suggestions:

1)

In your "Dawn of Time" description of the EU (in the first picture), as well as the your Civilopedia description, you mention the Treaty of Maastricht as the foundation of the European Union. While it's true that the Treaty of Maastricht (signed 1992, effective 1993) is the first time the word European Union is used, the history of the EU goes back much further than that. It's origin can be traced back as far as the European Coal and Steel Community, established in 1952. So while the Treaty of Maastricht did expand the powers of the EU as well as reform it, it would be more correct to regard the Treaty of Maastricht as providing a name change to an already existing entity, rather than creating a whole new international organization from scratch.
It is a bit ambiguous, though, when the actual and official beginning of the union was, though. The EU recognizes the Treaty of Rome (signed 1957, effective 1958) as it's beginning, for the purpose of anniversaries, though some regard the Treaty of Paris (signed 1951, effective 1952) which resulted in the establishment of the European Coal and Steel Community as the birth of the Union, while yet others regard the Schuman Declaration (9 May, 1950), the day of which is also the official Europe Day, as it's beginning.
My suggestion would be to simply leave out any mention of the establishment of the union. Seems like the more elegant solution.

2)
I understand why you would pick the leader as The President of the European Council, as you might not know the exact inner workings of the EU, and it might seem like an obvious choice. The President of the European Council, is currently not a very powerful position at all, lacking executive powers, and being primarily an administrative position. To better explain the positions of the EU, it might be beneficial for me to make comparisons to actual an actual sovereign state - take note though, that this is merely an analogy.
The EU can be regarded as a bicameral institution, much like the USA or the UK, and unlike unicameral legislatures such as Denmark or Portugal.
The European Council could be considered the Upper House (like the US Senate), while the European Parliament could be considered the Lower House (like the US House of Representatives) in the legislature. Lastly, the European Commission will make a good comparison to a Government, as it is the executive branch of the EU.
Following this logic, having the Leader of the EU civ in your mod be the President of the European Council, would pretty be the same as having the President of the Senate or the Majority Leader in the Senate be the Leader of the American civ, although the President of the European Union, following the logic of my previous analogy, also has the role of Head of State, i.e. the representative responsibilities in relation to other countries, a role typically filled by monarchs in a constitutional monarchy, or by presidents in a republic (in some countries the role of Head of State and Head of Government is invested in one person, such as the President of the United States in the USA, while in others one person has the representative role of Head of State, usually called a President, and the executive role of Head of Government is invested in another person, usually called Prime Minister).
My suggestion would be to change the name of the leader to either The President of the European Commission, since the European Commission equals the government of a regular nation, or to José Manuel Barroso, since he is the incumbent of the of the Presidency of the European Commission, or to Jacques Delors, since he is one of the most notable and successful, not to mention the longest serving, President of the European Commission that we have had yet, and among other things giving new momentum to the European integration, overseeing the process of signing and executing the Treaty of Maastricht, as well as making the foundation of the Euro.
I personally would prefer the latter of my leader suggestions, Delors, as firstly you get something more personal, than just a title, and it would be more akin to other civs in the game. The reason why I would prefer him over Barroso, is twofold: he is probably the most notable President of the European Commission to date, and he is more of a historical figure (though he's still living), because he is not the incumbent President, and thus it would be more like the other civs, in that none of them have any current figure as their leader.

3)
As others have mentioned, the UA of the European Union seems quite overpowered, even with the added drawback of 2GPU for UU's. Not to mention that it seems like the pros and cons would be hard to balance, it doesn't follow the regular pattern of civs, that is having one UA, and then either two UU's or one UU and then a UB. On top of that, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have these mostly archaic units (maybe with the exception of the Panzer, though it is probably more of a WW2-era unit?) being the UU's of the EU, as the EU is a very modern organization in a historic sense.
I would propose you follow the pattern laid of by the other civs in the game. You could go with one UA, one UU and one UB. Also, I think it would be appropriate to have it's UA, UU and UB be modern-era, as that would fit well with young age of the EU, and make the EU a powerful late-game civ. Here's my suggestions:

UU)
I think, probably the most obvious choice here would be the Eurofighter (full name Eurofighter Typhoon), replacing the regular Jet Fighter unit.
I'm not a military buff, so I don't know the specific advantages of the Eurofighter, though from the wikipedia article I can gather that it has excellent agility and manoeuvrability. You could possibly make the Eurofighter start with the Evasion promotion.

UB)
I don't think the choice is as obvious here, but at least there are quite a few options to pick from, my favourite being the European Central Bank, replacing the regular Bank. The benefit of the ECB could be that it would provides 50% extra gold instead of just 25%, or even better, it could provide (on top of the regular 25% extra gold) a reduction of maintenance costs of 25% when you have a surplus of gold, while increasing maintenance costs by a 100% if you have a negative amount of gold. The latter option would not only be balanced and not overpowered (though some testing might need to be done to determine what exact percentages is the most balanced, I think the idea is good), but it would also simulate that countries in the EU can deposit money in the ECB at a 0.25% interest rate, while they can borrow from it at a 1.00% interest rate.
The drawback of using the ECB as the UB of the EU is that it can be quite anachronistic, in that you can build a bank in CiV in the early Renaissance. One solution to this, would be to make the ECB replace the Stock Exchange instead of the Bank. On further thought, I think this is the best option overall.

UA)
I think a good option here would be to implement a UA called "Common Market".
The Common Market of the EU has historically been a driving force, and one of the core principles of the union.
My idea is that it could be a variation of Arabia's UA "Trade Caravans", but instead of providing 1 extra gold per trade route, it would provide 2 extra gold, but unlike Arabia's UA it wouldn't double the quantity of Oil resources.
I think this would be both fair and balanced, as well as simulating the internal Common Market of the EU, in that trade routes in ciV are strictly related to cities within your own empire, and not to foreign cities like in cIV.

---

I have to apologize for my exceedingly gargantuan post.
For that reason I will provide a short summary of my suggestions here. But I hope that you will read the entire post, especially you Emerald Knight. :)

1)
Don't mention when or what established the EU, as it is a bit ambiguous.

2)
Instead of "President of the European Council, make it (President) Jacques Delors. It is more personal, fits the pattern of the other civs in the game, and Delors is an important historical in the EU, and used to be in the office of what is equal to the Head of Government in the EU, namely President of the European Commission - unlike what the President of the European Council is.

3)
Instead of the current UA and it's UU's, replace it with the following:

UU)
Eurofighter Typhoon, replacing the Jet Fighter. Possibly have it's ability be that it starts with the Evasion promotion.

UB)
European Central Bank, replacing either the Stock Exchange (recommended) or the Bank. On top of it's regular bonus, it would reduce maintenance costs by 25% when you have a surplus of gold, while increasing maintenance costs by 100% when you have a negative amount of gold.

UA)
Common Market, providing an additional 2 gold for each trade route (cities connected to your capital).

---

Though I have a bunch of criticism and suggestions, I would like to thank you again for bringing the European Union to CiV! Thank you! :goodjob:
 
Skafsgaard's suggestions seem pretty well thought out, I definitely agree with most of 'em.
However, I would keep most of the "old world" UUs, but as clones: meaning they would have the very same stats/abilities as the relative default unit, but the UU's art. After all, one of the most useful things about this civ is to replace all the other european civs in an earth map game, solving the common issue of small, overcrowded Europe. That way, it would still have the (military) flavour of the various civilizations represented, while keeping gameplay balanced.
 
Thank you, Kadath - I'm glad you like them. :)
And I've got to give it to you, that suggestion of yours is pretty great! It would definitely bring some nice flavour, while maintaining balance. I'm all for it.

And indeed, when this civ has been finished, tweaked and tuned, it will solve the problem of a crowded Europe in Earth maps, a type I play often, usually as a European civ.
 
I was going to go with the President of the European Commission as he represents
The EU in the G8 and the wiki article says hes head of the exec branch but the wiki page on European Union put the president of the council first lol
Also I was thinking like in Canada, where the head of the exec branch is the prime minister but the head of state is the Queen.
Otherwise sounds good I'll put in the changes
 
You will? That's awesome!
Be sure to let us know when you've updated the mod - I'll be the first to playtest it for you. :)
 
Ok, so I've posted v.4!
Didn't have time to put a leaderhead in, but maybe i'll do it for v. 5
Let me know how it plays.

German would be cool, once it's polished and finalized!
 
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