Deity OCC Science Victory - G&K Strategy and Tips

Dont be afraid to spend even 4 or 5 turns before you get setup on your mountain. Never attack anyone. Trade with them all, all the time and you will be at peace the whole game. Build 2 scouts as your first 2 builds and you should be able to scout the whole map before you get fenced in and need Open Borders.
 
I don't think it's a good idea to use more than 1 turn moving your initial settler. Reroll instead. If you wander around with your settler for multiple turns your city won't be able to snowball as fast. And don't forget that you don't have any kind of science or culture before settling down.
 
@budweiser

thanks, i appreciate it. but im trading with everyone, even horses with Attila which i dont find to be a good idea, but if you look at who the opponents are there is no way to be at peace all the time. Ottomans, Attila, Iroquois are guarantees and Danes are about 50% of the time. Persia is on the other side of the Danes and logically cant reach me without going thru them so dows from them are really unlikely unless i provoke it.

basically, 3 war-heavy civs see me as weak with one city. i can keep them from dowing me early for only so long. ottomans were universally hated and i kept decent relations with attilla and the danes but by the time i got past them in tech they hated me, around t80 or so. if they were different opponents id agree with all of that. but these irrational civs are making this a real challenge, that and the continents setting.
 
uzumati, i couldnt get even 3 RAs in my game. everyone hated me simply for existing. they coveted my lands. it's OCC. what else can i do, haha? in my save im on the same continent with Danes, Persia, Iroquois, Attila and Ottomans. so yeah, 4 of them declared on me (Persia being the exception). starting around t65. i met egypt and elizabeth on the other continent late game n got 3 ra's between them but egypt had 3 space parts before i finished my first booster so i couldn't sign any more with him. eventually persia won with a cult vic before him. if i had 3 more ra's i wouldve had a chance. maybe.

It is vital to find all 7 civs on the map fast (which is why the OP uses Pangea maps I asume). I don't think the OP clearly stated this but scouting is vital. When you find Attila, Ottomans, Persia, Japan, Monty, Maria, etc. get the loans early from them. If you know that they could DOW by their personality, TRADE WITH THEM FIRST. Gandhi, Maya will ask for DOF's without any help on your part. When you trade with them, do it with the last few Luxs, or with Strat Resources. Keep loans going. A civ will think three or four time before they DOW you if they trade with you. Attila is going to DOW no matter what, he is also a teddy bear after and will be flush with cash the whole game, Trade him. Maximize you RA partners this way will give big returns. USE THOSE SPY'S ALOT.

I'm including my current save at turn 159 is any of you want to play the rest. All six have research agreements, celt's are dead. Size 33 pop, and you are halfway through the left side of Rationalism. I'm finishing it tonight because I know it will be my record. Edit: Denmark has gotten their GG stuck between Stockholm and my border so don't freak when you see him, if you play. He's just stuck, poor guy. Get a factory going, beeling plastics, then Hubble, Apollo, then get you parts. I'm kinda of OCC, pun intended, so DOF everyone when the big RA's hit.
View attachment Pachacuti_0159 AD-0980.Civ5Save
I see we must have gotten the patch? :(
 
after the first peace deal ive been using spies to try and share intrigue with them. that has helped a bit but generally for the 2nd or third spy i get. the first one i get is used for stealing asap. maybe that isnt the best idea but im usually still without some very low techs like sailing or IW and rushing thru those has been key so far.
 
quick question slightly related: when you check OCC and you go after a capital, what happens? all other cities just go poof, but what about caps? also, im guessing you can only liberate CSs on OCC?

Don't know about the capitals but if you capture a conquered city state while playing OCC, that CS autorazes immediately whitout a change to liberate. I find this kind of annoying and feel that there should be a option to liberate in an OCC game.
 
Don't know about the capitals but if you capture a conquered city state while playing OCC, that CS autorazes immediately whitout a change to liberate. I find this kind of annoying and feel that there should be a option to liberate in an OCC game.

good to know, ive had many opportunities to try and liberate one just never did it because they were ones i didnt particularly need to be allied with (like faith CSs).
 
Well, OCC is OCC for you, so if you "capture" a capital, it automatically gets razed (as you can't have a second city), and the capital status is transferred to the next best city. I did it some time ago, so unless something has changed, there should be no going poof :) Liberating CS's works too. However, it all boils down to having good relationship with (all, if possible) the others, as the RA's decide the game in the end.
 
Liberating CS's works too.

Hmm. I am pretty sure a CS that I captured got razed. Can it have something to do with the fact that first I was at war with the city state and it was captured by my ally AI. Soon afterwards I back stabbed that AI and took that city state. So I didn't make peace with the city state and we were basically at war when I captured it.
 
Really? I must have mixed up the games then. I should try this again. In a way, it makes sense, as this CS is a part of an enemy empire now. I will try to liberate one and see what happens.
 
I tried this strategy again, this time using the Incans on a standard pangaea map and Deity setting. I launched on T255 - 31 turns less than my previous attempt with Ethiopia on Immortal (post #16). It was a bit of a nail-biter at the end as I had to dodge a UN vote 2 turns before my final part was built, and Kammy ended up with 9 votes.

Some interesting things about this game:
- My science rate peaked at only 535 beakers/turn, but I made it up by stealing techs in the early-mid game plus many RA's (4 waves of 5 I think). I was in solid with a group of 5 civs who all hated Austria and the Ottomans, who were both far from my territory.
- I did not have a single war the entire game.
- I only built 2 world wonders - PT and Hubble. Wonders went very early in this game - ToA before T30, GL on T30 and HG before T40, for example. I was lucky to get PT.
- I misjudged the ending a bit. I used the Rationalism finisher to bulb the Hubble tech, but didn't have a GE for Hubble. So by the time I built it the 2 free GS were not really needed. My last wave of RA's kicked in before that and I blew right through the rest of the tech tree. I ended up researching Future Tech 4 times. So I may have been able to shave 5-10 turns off the finish with a bit tighter play.
- I did not have a religion in my city the entire game. I freely provided open borders and missionaries were sent toward my city, but none of them ever converted me. I ended up with 4 Faith total the whole game, so I wasn't able to buy any Great People with Faith.
- I was allied with one maritime CS (basically the whole game). Luckily they had aluminum later on. I didn't have the cash for more allies, and couldn't really compete with Kammy and Harun anyway who had tens of thousands of gold.

All-in-all a very solid strategy - faster and certainly more peaceful than a typical non-OCC strategy.
 
something ive never had happen before: Genghis asked me to join in war against the Romans. I said give me 10 turns. I was trying to remove one of their cities encroaching on my land and 10 turns would do it. I was also thankful because Genghis had been hostile w/me before that. The next turn Genghis DoWs me. I fend off his Keshiks right as I get to Machinery. This takes about 8 turns of wiping more of his units and when I upgrade to Crossbows he asks for peace plus about 80g. I agreed. Then the next turn he says, "It's time to join me in war with Suleiman. Are you ready?"

I lol'd pretty hard. I guess I thought the agreement would be 'cancelled' because he DoW'd me. The funny things you learn ...
 
aaaaaand done. finally got it finished on t286 with Babylon. couldve easily gotten below t260 with some replays (and probably will to make sure. i had about 640bpt at the most, settled 5 GSs, popped 10 more (2 from hubble, 2 from faith), popped 2 GAs and got a Gm 2 turns before finishing (haD all people slots filled for highest bpt i could get). finished the last part in 3 turns (only built a worker 1 turn ahead for some carry over).

the biggest thing i got to help this out was actually get more than 3 RAs. i signed maybe 9 the whole game, 1 of which fizzled with the bug. That alone would have shaved 8 or so turns off of it. I also didnt have any wars for the first 150t. That was super surprising.

I'll get a screenie up when i can. Had pop 36 at the end. Darius and William had been conquered. The golden age popped on the last turn.

Spoiler :


comment regarding RAs
Spoiler :
okay, i decided to go back and play it from a pivotal moment. i had a new policy to choose and it was either between freedom or order. i wanted to go order for the factory beaker bonus but it would mean losing favor with the 3 civs i had RAs with. i instead went freedom on my first playthrough. it only angered civs id never be pals with anyway. on my 2nd play thru from that turn i instead chose order to see how much the factory sci bonus would help long term. well, my 2 of my 3 RA buddies all went to hostile in 2 turns from being very friendly. both of the RAs with the buddies fizzled. the first RA only gave me 430 beakers, which was my bpt. the second one, 5 turns later did the same thing. i reloaded again but chose freedom and both of those RAs were just fine (and the other one fizzled). i really hope this gets fixed in the patch.
 
I'm glad to see you having fun with your games.

Try pachacu and reroll until you have a Petra start, gotta love that game. mountainside hills with terrace and petra = 3F 3H 1G tiles, even more food if river or more mountain tiles present.

I've learned some more tricks:
- As someone stated, scouting is vital, that's why I always open with a Scout and as the game progresses if I have unknown Civs due to weird pangea shapes I add a second scout and buy open borders. Meeting Civs lowers tech cost, gives you earlier friendships chances and gets you customers for your repeated luxury sales (Harun anyone? xD).
- If no one built Oracle, when you finish your university, prebuild it and leave it with 1 turn to completion so when you bulb Astronomy with Oxford you can complete it and pick a free Rationalism policy. With some Culture bump (CS, artist slots, Sixtine), you can get the plus 50% RAs policy to your 2ond wave of RAs. It is easier with Korea and Babylon because you hit Education around T90, on deity with other civs is harder because you get Education around T100-110 so often Oracle has been built then.
- Don't forget to build culture buildings or your important policies won't be up on time (it is vital to get the +50% RAs ASAP. If you catch Oracle and Sixtine you can get Order Factories policy. (25% beakers is really nice). If you didn't stick with Rationalism.
- 8 turns before your wave of RAs fill your specialist slots, work jungles and build science if possible so you bump your RAs output.
- If your last Rationalism policy will be up before you need it don't be afraid to sell your opera/museum/radio tower to slow your culture output and time it properly.
- There are some idle production phases in the game where you can build some military so you save your money for RAs and you can disband old units instead of spending money upgradind them. Phase 1 is while you research to Education, once you have Market, National Epic and Garden, build some pikemen/bowmen instead of throwing hammers on Wonders that won't benefit you at all (Chichen, Hagia Sophia or and all the rest are not worth it). Phase 2 is while you wait for Apollo. Once you have Factory and Damm, Instead of building Statue of Liberty, spy buildings or any other thing, build some Machineguns so you disuade your neighbours.
- If you see AI troops moving to your borders, send all your troops next to theirs. If seen Oda and others moving an army half map to attack me and when I showed my units they offered friendship. Works 50% of the time.
- Except if you want to found a religion or you need culture to get vital policies, ignore City States. Avoid do missions from CS allied to other Civs. Playing OCC they bring minimal benefits and if you steal a CS allied to an AI they get mad. Specially Siam, Austria and Greece turn from friends to hostile if you do that.
 
That the strategy is working so well proves for me that the RA formula is brokken.

Its WAY too easy to play this way and u dont win because u play good but because RAs are brokken and u benefit purly from AI deity modificator.
Deity should make a hard, challenging game not provide in end a bonus to the player and offer a more easy win as a immortal game.

This is just exploiting a bad designed gameplay feature - way worse as worker stealing or loan breaking as it doesnt come with a negative side effect.

But then oh well its just a game ..
 
I admire people who accept the game "as is" then work out a great strategy and take the time to explain it clearly. The problems I encounter are not getting to education fast enough because of the need to detour to construction for defense. I always have to "waste" a policy in commerce. Timing, not getting scientific revolution in time for my 2nd wave of RA and finally my last wave comes too late. I have to grind out too much of the way to Nano and when the last wave hits I have so much science left over that I finish the tech tree and get future tech 1, too. My best time: turn 254 with 2 cities as Inca.
 
That the strategy is working so well proves for me that the RA formula is brokken.

Its WAY too easy to play this way and u dont win because u play good but because RAs are brokken and u benefit purly from AI deity modificator.
Deity should make a hard, challenging game not provide in end a bonus to the player and offer a more easy win as a immortal game.

This is just exploiting a bad designed gameplay feature - way worse as worker stealing or loan breaking as it doesnt come with a negative side effect.

But then oh well its just a game ..

Well Tommynt, playing deity has some negative side effects: AI attacks are way harder to stop, they surround you with cities and sometimes steal tiles from your city radius, you have to skip most wonders and AIs launch the spaceship around T230-250, so it is actually harder in some ways.

It is clear that it is easier to win in Inmortal but fastest wins have always been playing deity due to deity AIs having thousands of gold to give you in peace deals or having enough gold to sign 6-7 RAs so nothing new here (it was way easier pre G&K where you didn't need friendships) .

Playing OCC your science and RA output is lower than playing 4+ cities so you don't really exploit RA system more than in any other kind of game.

It was a lot easier to play OCC before G&K due to parking 7 GS and burning them all so RAs were way less vital than they are now.

Also you have fewer gold to sign RAs and to buy/upgrade units so you have to stick to a good plan or you won't be able to get a fast win. Optimizing game plan to get faster victories means playing good to me, it's a matter of taste.
 
So when reading of a strategy where u:
Build 2 Units all game
Build very few wonders
Got 1 or 2 workers

Where exactly is the point of optimising?

Ok I see me optimising this and ll obviously be 20 turns faster as other players but that doesnt change the fact that deity should (should it?) be hard and not be won easy by bad players
 
With respect, I think this thread is turning a bit into a squabble about who's good and who's bad.

I personally find Sadato's strategy rather enlightening, as I learned a lot about the game just in 5-6 playthroughs in OCC. For that, I am extremely grateful, as before I tried the OCC tactic he mentioned, I was just another noob who left everything "as is" and had tough time winning on Warlond and Prince, fell pray to CoD's, as well as failed to win before year 2050 multiple times... And now I can do well enough on deity, even without the RA's, as I learned to prioritize, switch production accordingly, think strategically, I also learned the relative unit strength and how to counter them, and so on, and so forth.

In the end, everyone exploits the game in some way, apart from the research agreements. So do I - I sell luxuries anytime I can, especially if that lux is going to be destroyed by a barb the next turn. Some players reload till they get a good ruin or perfect starting location, others sell luxuries and get loans for gpt from the AI and DOW them afterwards, others save at every wonder start so that they can replay if someone completes it first, etc.

Let us not forget that any writeup and any youtube videos (like the MadDjinn's I watched) help many players around the world to improve their game. I know I did.
 
So when reading of a strategy where u:
Build 2 Units all game
Build very few wonders
Got 1 or 2 workers

Where exactly is the point of optimising?

Ok I see me optimising this and ll obviously be 20 turns faster as other players but that doesnt change the fact that deity should (should it?) be hard and not be won easy by bad players

Oh man, I'm a bit astonished by your awesome rant.

Playing deity you can't count on wonders, with only 1 city you don't need more than 3 workers and 6 units so I don't know what kind of strategy would you expect from an OCC deity guide. I play deity OCC since Civ IV and It's been always the same (forest preserve+national park+ecology, no need for huge unit number or wonders neither).

In CIV V you optimize with:

a) City placement
b) Build Order
c) Tech path
d) Spies
e) Oxford
f) Religion
g) Cultural Policies

There are quite a lot of decissions to be made during a game.

Trying different build orders and tech paths I found a stable plan to get 220-230T wins with any Civ, looks like some kind of improvement to me.

People following this plan have been able to change T300 emperor wins for T250 deity wins, so I guess they are playing better and they learned some key concepts of the game or in your words they are not "bad players" anymore.

I got a 202 win due to RA exploit which I didn't want to explore (something related with accumulated beakers, techs queued and few RAs hitting the same turn on cheap tech.) Other than that I can't see other ways to get a faster win.

If obviously you would be 20 turns faster I'd be glad to learn from your highness.

Military rushes with key techs have been always an option for "bad players" to get deity wins if they knew how to do it so I don't understand why suddenly winning OCC means deity is a joke and that everything comes from RA exploit. As I said pre-G&K it was way easier and faster burning GS and with a RA mechanic a lot more exploitable.

I know you from GOTM and other posts so I know you are not a crazy troll but I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here.
 
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