Deity OCC Science Victory - G&K Strategy and Tips

I got a 202 win due to RA exploit which I didn't want to explore (something related with accumulated beakers, techs queued and few RAs hitting the same turn on cheap tech.) Other than that I can't see other ways to get a faster win.

the fix to this exploit is in patch notes where the "bug" causing it is also explained in detail, guess it kinda kicks in allways and unwanted.

I know you from GOTM and other posts so I know you are not a crazy troll but I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here.

Dont get my wrong I dont have problems with the "guide" but am just unhappy about the game design (which might even be unwanted when reading patch notes) allowing it to work that well.
 
Oh man, I'm a bit astonished by your awesome rant.

Playing deity you can't count on wonders, with only 1 city you don't need more than 3 workers and 6 units so I don't know what kind of strategy would you expect from an OCC deity guide. I play deity OCC since Civ IV and It's been always the same (forest preserve+national park+ecology, no need for huge unit number or wonders neither).

In CIV V you optimize with:

a) City placement
b) Build Order
c) Tech path
d) Spies
e) Oxford
f) Religion
g) Cultural Policies

There are quite a lot of decissions to be made during a game.

Trying different build orders and tech paths I found a stable plan to get 220-230T wins with any Civ, looks like some kind of improvement to me.

People following this plan have been able to change T300 emperor wins for T250 deity wins, so I guess they are playing better and they learned some key concepts of the game or in your words they are not "bad players" anymore.

I got a 202 win due to RA exploit which I didn't want to explore (something related with accumulated beakers, techs queued and few RAs hitting the same turn on cheap tech.) Other than that I can't see other ways to get a faster win.

If obviously you would be 20 turns faster I'd be glad to learn from your highness.

Military rushes with key techs have been always an option for "bad players" to get deity wins if they knew how to do it so I don't understand why suddenly winning OCC means deity is a joke and that everything comes from RA exploit. As I said pre-G&K it was way easier and faster burning GS and with a RA mechanic a lot more exploitable.

I know you from GOTM and other posts so I know you are not a crazy troll but I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here.


This was a great guide Sadato, and I used it to nail several Deity OCC science wins, first time about T280 then getting down to about T230. I agree with you that the optimizing also affects how you go through the tech tree, build order, etc. Some of the tips here I've adopted in non-OCC games because they are just very solid principles, and now I'm on the verge of regularly playing deity. Kudos.
 
In CIV V you optimize with:

a) City placement
b) Build Order
c) Tech path
d) Spies
e) Oxford
f) Religion
g) Cultural Policies

There are quite a lot of decissions to be made during a game.

Trying different build orders and tech paths I found a stable plan to get 220-230T wins with any Civ, looks like some kind of improvement to me.
.

Thanks for the guide Sadato. I couldn't agree more with this assessment. The first time I tried this, I built the National Epic earlier than I should have (even after you said not to :( ) and missed the Tradition to Rationalism jump by 3 turns. I had to take Commerce.

So what you said about optimizing build order or tech order is 100% correct.

Anyways, I hope you can comment here:

I'm following your guide but I'm unsure when the bottom part of the tech tree comes in. For example, there is one part in your guide where you say you should make your way to Education then compass (and upgrade to Xbows at the same time). Yet I didn't see when Machinery was teched. Plus, how early should I go for Printing Press, etc...

Finally, I'm not use to being 7th or 8th in Literacy. How long should I find myself at the bottom in Literacy?

Thanks
 
I'm following your guide but I'm unsure when the bottom part of the tech tree comes in. For example, there is one part in your guide where you say you should make your way to Education then compass (and upgrade to Xbows at the same time). Yet I didn't see when Machinery was teched. Plus, how early should I go for Printing Press, etc...

Finally, I'm not use to being 7th or 8th in Literacy. How long should I find myself at the bottom in Literacy?

Thanks

After I Oxford Astronomy I go to Machinery. I think I refered to upgrading to composite bowmen which I do before Education although If I think I won't be attacked sometimes I skip it.

I never check my position in Literacy. Usually I surpass AI tech when I reach Industrial Era.
 
When should you stop signing new RAs? I feel like the last wave was somewhat of a waste. In my last game, when I hit robotics, I only had a couple of RAs left before I stopped signing new ones, yet every tech after took only one turn to finish and I had quite a few left. This continued well into future tech level 5 or so. I also had a bunch of low level techs that weren't researched. I don't understand where the sudden jump in science came from. Should the last wave really be that strong?

I ended up getting hubble without a GE, which was a mistake as I ended up with 3 unused GSs. I lost the game to a diplo victory with 2 parts left to build. I was still happy because it was a huge improvement over my last game. One thing I'm still having a problem with is timing my social policies so I start on rationalism earlier. I keep having to waste a policy before I open rationalism.
 
After I Oxford Astronomy I go to Machinery. I think I refered to upgrading to composite bowmen which I do before Education although If I think I won't be attacked sometimes I skip it.

I never check my position in Literacy. Usually I surpass AI tech when I reach Industrial Era.

i forget to Oxford early. I usually save oxford for Plastics for Research Labs. I need to try it to see how much of a difference it makes.
 
Thanks a lot. Your tips or more like a walkthrough was really helpful

I just got my first diety victory with Inca OCC

finished in 241 turns

Could have finished 4 or 5 turns earlier if I knew I need to launch 3 boosters for science victory, when I have built one LOL

I only built 1 archer and 1 scout who was upgraded to archer after equipping himself in a ruin for almost the entire game. However, ,o war was ever declared on me. Only I get to declare war. In late game I built one more infantry just trying to destroy a city state lol.

On my map, I only met Aztec in mid game and japan in late game so they were always busy declaring wars on their neighbors and ignored me the entire game. I was also well protected by the mountains so yeah, I was safe even though I declare war early on my neighbor Germany when I stole his worker. We even became friends later. Actually I became friends with everyone I met except Sweden and the other two I hadn't met yet. Sweden, for some reasons, denounced everyone in the world. So yea, I couldn't stay on good terms with them.

But in the late game, after some spying work, I befriended everyone and signed all the RAs even with that huge military disadvantage. It was really cool to see those techs popping up.
 
With the new patch game has changed a lot. OCC science 220 wins are now impossible. I managed a 250 win with sweden but 260 seems the standard, I'll try baylon and korea but I doubt it can be improved too much. This happens due to the following:

- RAs give way too less beakers in general (I guess the overflow was present in all RAs before patch) and late techs are a big pain to get. Maybe Oxford should be saved for end game but I'm not sure because hard tech Astronomy means 14 turns of delay of overall research and in completion date of Pisa and PT so chances of missing them increase.
- AIs spend their money and until T180+ they are very poor, so you have to constantly give them money in exchange of GPT to be able to sign RAs. You need much more gold than before to be able to sign RAs so gold spent in units, CS or buildings have to be minimized and you must priorize gold buildings and getting Oracle to get Commerce opener seems a good idea. Also, you should work some Trade Posts because now that you have more turns before starting Apollo you have more turns to grow before focusing production.
- AI research is much slower (I guess they suffer aswell the RA fix). Their win date comes a lot later. You can now win T280 in deity without danger of others winning UN or launching spaceship.
- Now you need Railroad to get Rocketry, this also slows many turns Apollo construction then also the spaceship launch date. At least Chemistry and fertilizer are quite useful, moreso now that you play a lot more turns so you can grow bigger.
- Deity attacks now that they heal pillaging are a lot harder to stop. It is doable but you need a couple more units than before and walls are a must.
- Now that you play 30-40 more turns to win (T250-260) there are other game plan options available. Yesterday with active use of artists I completed Freedom T190 and I jumped from 600 to almost 900 beakers and was on time to complete Rationalism T240 for the last part of the spaceship.
- Great Temple means around 1000 faith so it's an additional faith bought GS but you need to found a religion. Playing a religious civ, getting desert folclore, or spending 1000g on a religious CS to be able to found a religion will give you even more benefits than before. My favorite beliefs for OCC are +1 gold per 4 followers, 15% growth 15% production and 50 faith per GP (people underestimates it, you get around 14 GPs during a game which means 700 faith (5 natural GS + 1 GS from PT + 2 GS faith bought + 2 GS from Hubble + 1 GE from Pisa to PT + 1 natural GE for Hubble + 2 Great Prophets (enhancer one and 500 cost one pre industrial).

- OCC Cultural victory gains attention back now that its win date is simmilar than science one. I'll be working on this to see how far can I go, I didn't tried too much since pre-G&K.
 
With the new patch game has changed a lot. OCC science 220 wins are now impossible. I managed a 250 win with sweden but 260 seems the standard, I'll try baylon and korea but I doubt it can be improved too much.
Does this mean 4 waves of RA's?

I finished 267 immortal game with 27 (actually, 28 but the last one was redundant) of them. This number just doesn't sound right to me. :crazyeye: AI's bpt is so low in middle game, it's not even funny. My university was up by 111, Petra mountain start (ended up with 43 pop city :cool:), signed 4 RA's between 108-114, but that wasn't enough. Needed two more to finish Scientific Theory by 160 and full round of another 7 for Plastics by 200. First wave without PT and Rationalism bonus was... yuck. It also made me wonder if investing in cultural CS and trying to finish Freedom makes more sense than throwing money on useless partners before you get the boosts.
 
Yes, 4 waves of RAs should be enough, turns 110, 140, 170 and 200 with an ideal scenario, although if you miss friends maybe you need later ones.

Finishing freedom is huge but you need huge population to fill artist slots, ally cultural CS and accept that you will pop at least 2 artist GPs.

I've been lately opening Patronage with Oracle to get aesthetics before Rationalism then protect all the CS to get permafriends with all of them all the game with huge benefits, lots of free culture, units, food, faith and extra hapiness. AIs don't get as mad as I expected so it is really a good option playing OCC. With Siam it's even better.
 
In my last Deity GAME,Darius lauched spaceship in T263.
For me,OCC Deity science victory is way harder then pre-patch.
 
With the new patch game has changed a lot. OCC science 220 wins are now impossible. I managed a 250 win with sweden but 260 seems the standard, I'll try baylon and korea but I doubt it can be improved too much.

Thank goodness you said this! I've only played this strategy since the latest patch, and after much toil, I managed to win in T256 with a ridiculously great starting position (Inca, hills galore, lots of lux, GL on T32 -- suck it, Ramesses!).

I know I could shave off some turns here and there, but at least I can rest easy knowing that I'm not missing something huge. :)

Thanks for the guide, Sadato. I had a lot of fun with this one.

-Grendel
 
I tried Deity OCC Science Victory first time after the patch. I had a nice start with Inca. Lots of desert hills, built GL (T35, got Writing from ruins) and Petra. Invested heavily to Culture after Renaissance and finished Freedom before the right side of Rationalism. Unfortunately had to pop up two Artists but it didn't matter much since I don't usually build Pisa (hard built PT) so I managed to generate five Scientists manually plus got two from faith purchase and two from Hubble. I had four rounds of RAs (4 + 5 + 4 + 3), that was enough because I had only one tech left to research when finished Rationalism.

America launched space ship T239 when I had still a few space ship parts to go. I continued playing and finished last part T249 (would have cut off a turn or two if I had still been optimizing production fully, I was 0.25 hammers short of the last part in T248). There were also two other civs which were close to finishing space ship, they might have done that before I "finished" mine.

I have a few questions for you, Sadato:

Do you always manage to build Pisa? It was gone T125 in my game. I would have missed it even if I had beelined to Printing Press after Astronomy. Are you sure it's worth building Pisa? The "free" GP will delay getting the next GS and I feel it's more probable to get PT if beelined straight to Architecture and you can build Sistine meanwhile.

How many Scientists did settle when you "jumped from 600 to almost 900 beakers" while you were trying other options and finished Freedom?

Do you sign first round of RAs immediately you finish Education or do you wait until T110?
 
Do you always manage to build Pisa? It was gone T125 in my game. I would have missed it even if I had beelined to Printing Press after Astronomy. Are you sure it's worth building Pisa? The "free" GP will delay getting the next GS and I feel it's more probable to get PT if beelined straight to Architecture and you can build Sistine meanwhile.

How many Scientists did settle when you "jumped from 600 to almost 900 beakers" while you were trying other options and finished Freedom?

Do you sign first round of RAs immediately you finish Education or do you wait until T110?

I always give Pisa a try, I want Machinery ASAP to stop Pikemen rushes and to get the Ironworks and I usually steal chivalry and physics so it is not that costly. I don't usually get it but PT I almost get 100% of the time as I get Architecture with the first wave of RAs and with stoneworks built it is fast to get. The 25% Pisa provides is really worth it and by far compensates the cost increase of your GPs.

I usually settle 5-6 scientists +2 from religion if I manage to get one. If I'm going freedom (you need sistine + cultural allies) y plant all of them unless I'm pass Rocketry.

I sign RAs inmediately when I finish Education but now that the AI has money problems and sometimes I don't have enough to pay all the possible RAs so now I wait for my Observatory to be completed to sign them so I get the maximum from those RAs. If you have huge income (Arabia, lots of lux) I would sign inmediately.
 
I always give Pisa a try, I want Machinery ASAP to stop Pikemen rushes and to get the Ironworks and I usually steal chivalry and physics so it is not that costly. I don't usually get it but PT I almost get 100% of the time as I get Architecture with the first wave of RAs and with stoneworks built it is fast to get. The 25% Pisa provides is really worth it and by far compensates the cost increase of your GPs.

I usually settle 5-6 scientists +2 from religion if I manage to get one. If I'm going freedom (you need sistine + cultural allies) y plant all of them unless I'm pass Rocketry.

I sign RAs inmediately when I finish Education but now that the AI has money problems and sometimes I don't have enough to pay all the possible RAs so now I wait for my Observatory to be completed to sign them so I get the maximum from those RAs. If you have huge income (Arabia, lots of lux) I would sign inmediately.

Thanks for a quick reply, Sadato :)

Yes, I understand that in the end game 25% from Pisa will compensate and maybe it's not so much of a gamble if you manage to steal some techs in its path. I'll try that on my next game, I think I've been avoiding stealing techs too much in general.

Btw I had PT hardbuilt on T141 on that game so I had it ready when first wave of RAs resolved. That's one more reason why I've been debating if it isn't worth to go with Pisa. Also I settled only 4 Scientists on that game, which was probably very stupid, especially with the Freedom finisher.

A few more questions for you if you don't mind: If you're going Freedom, do you finish the left side of Rationalism before opening Freedom? How many, if any, Artists do you generate and what do you do with them, settle or burn for Golden Age?
 
Thanks for a quick reply, Sadato :)
A few more questions for you if you don't mind: If you're going Freedom, do you finish the left side of Rationalism before opening Freedom? How many, if any, Artists do you generate and what do you do with them, settle or burn for Golden Age?

Yes I enter freedom after I have 50% buff on RAs, it is too important to miss.

Usually I get a couple of artists, if my population is huge or if I'm Korea I plant the artists, otherwise I burn them.

Just remember that If you get an aditional policy after completion Tradition but before being in the Renaissance your policy costs will rise so freedom is not an option.

To try the freedom option you must have built many wonders to get benefits from the +2 culture per wonder and sistine chapel, otherwise your policy pace will be too slow to matter.

With Korea the freedom path is awesome.

In additon,
 
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