Diplomacy by numbers - spreadsheet

Greece very often conquers the other continent when they are not up against another warmonger.
 
From my experience Napoleon, Alexander, Siam and Rome are the top dogs. Suleiman, Genghis and Harun can do pretty well if they don't get boxed in. Honestly, Siam and Alex are the most dangerous, simply because they'll go for a UN victory (and usually have the money to do so). I have yet to loose to a space-race or cultural AI win. Maybe I should move up to immortal. King and Emperor are almost the same (with Emperor probably even easier considering half of the AIs go broke around turn 200 on King).
 
Really? Rome always does the worst of all in my games. They always get beaten, pushed around etc. Never have I seen a competent Rome.

Can you explain this chart a bit? I don't understand most of it.
 
What I find interesting in this graph are the victory numbers. It just seems strange to me that only a few AIs are competitive and will try to win, while the rest will just be content to sit there.

I don't know if this is new to civ (obviously I'm a very new civ player, look at my post count) but this just seems like a strange decision. Shouldn't every AI be competitive and try to win the game?

I think that value is how likely you are to get a relations hit for trying to win the game in the same way they are. Not how likely they are going to try and win the game. It is in the competitiveness section.
 
Well, that explains a lot of the annoyance regarding the diplo system:

"-Deceptive (how likely it is that the listed relations means nothing)"

Looking down the deceptive column, Kahn, Alex, Nebby, Askia, and Gandhi are the only ones who aren't probably lying to you. Nebby is a DLC civ that some of us (me included) don't have, and Alex, Askia, and Kahn are already stabbing you in the front anyway.

And speaking of backstabbing, about half of them are very backstab-happy too.

Why is there a religion flavor? Is it supposed to relate to how likely they are to choose piety? I don't see a flavor for the other SP trees though.
 
Can someone explain these values? Seriously. What is victory, boldness, minorciv, diplo balance, loyalty, neediness, forgiveness, chattiness, meanness?

What does offence-defence really means? Is it aggressiveness?
Recon? Happiness? Does Catherine having 3 on happiness mean that she doesn't much care about how happy her empire is? What does Alexander's 9 diplomacy means? War and hostile? How should I understand these exactly?

And then there is deceptive, which basically tells that there is only a few civs you can conduct diplomacy with... WTH?

Many of these don't make any sense to me right now, as I might not understand them correctly.

Bismarck the irrational has a relatively high 6 warmongerHate for a guy who is extremely agressive, while the sheet says only 4 on hostile??? AARRRGGGH!!! I'm confused! Someone help!
 
And then there is deceptive, which basically tells that there is only a few civs you can conduct diplomacy with... WTH?

Bismarck the irrational has a relatively high 6 warmongerHate for a guy who is extremely agressive, while the sheet says only 4 on hostile??? AARRRGGGH!!! I'm confused! Someone help!

Added explanations to first post :)

Bismarck is one of the most reliable civs out there. He will either declare on you or be friendly with you, but he's not likely to be an ass and be guarded or hostile (sissies that hate you but won't declare). However, he can declare war at "friendly". That's what deceptiveness means. He's just generally a very honest warmonger (and that usually gets him killed).
 
Added explanations to first post :)

Bismarck is one of the most reliable civs out there. He will either declare on you or be friendly with you, but he's not likely to be an ass and be guarded or hostile (sissies that hate you but won't declare). However, he can declare war at "friendly". That's what deceptiveness means. He's just generally a very honest warmonger (and that usually gets him killed).

Thanks for that.

I don't know about Bismarck being most reliable, he always hates me and DoWs on me. But thanks to you, now I understand why. It doesn't seem so irrational anymore. :)
It seems to me that his pretty high 6 warmonger hate when he himself is quite the warmonger - 7 (second only to Napoleon and Montezuma) AND his extremely high 8 denouncement willingness is the reason he inevitably denounces, hates and DoWs on me in EVERY single game (He has a habit of denouncing me in the first 10 turns after meeting him for no apparent reason). It is also the reason why so many civs hate him so often... Because he simply hates everyone (those Germans... :lol: joke), he hates warmongers and he denounces everyone for farting or looking at him the wrong way... and then he DoWs on everyone. Unfortunately (or fortunately) his warmongering skills/ability isn't a match for Alex, Napoleon or Oda... or even Cathy! :shifty: If his actual ability to wage war would match his attitude he'd be one dangerous German. He spams and throws inferior units at his enemies... which no one it seems have any problems of deterring. In other words he can talk the talk but he can't walk the walk..? Uh... or how did that phrase go? :confused: Actually that's not accurate, that phrase would apply to Washington, not Bismarck. Bismarck does actually walks the walk, but not successfully enough.

Could you please do the "How to deal with" for other civs too? :please:

Also no culture victory for AI!?!? Lame, but at least it explains why no one ever really, truly, seriously invests in policies.
 
Also no culture victory for AI!?!? Lame, but at least it explains why no one ever really, truly, seriously invests in policies.

AI sometime choose cultural victory as their path... they're just really, really bad at it. this is why sometimes gandhi will only have 4 cities and not expand beyond that.
 
Gandhi threatening people with nukes is one of the iconic Civ moments across the years, they may have decided (tongue in cheek a la the Giant Death Robot) that they wanted to make that happen. Of course, people who don't want tongue-in-cheek joking in their Civ are going to hate it, but meh.
 
Wow, how incredibly useful this could get if someone can instinctively rely on such a summary of probable AI behaviors. It simply puts these numbers & abstract figures back into the rational estimates realm for us all.
Saved the precious gif Image, will certainly print it later. (PS; Some XLS spreadsheet files were done by others last year but this newest stuff is superbly designed!)
Might as well integrate this OP_post comments into the "file" or a Zipped reference set for D/L, don't you think?
Thanks so much, Bibor.

(What's Conequest? :) ;) )
 
Great stuff, and a very useful table!

Correcting a few misconceptions based on what I've learned reading the AI logs, XML, and how things worked for the AI in civ4:

The "FLAVOR" ratings determine the priority that an AI places on constructing buildings or units which also have that kind of flavor type. So, there wouldn't be a standalone cultural victory flavor, the regular culture flavor would cause an AI to build cultural buildings. The AI definitely does have a cultural victory grand strategy, and AIs with high culture flavor ratings are more likely to go that route (and if they do, then they stay pretty small). See CIV5AIGrandStrategies.xml.

Similarly, the production flavor controls priority set on production boosting buildings, etc. It very well may also tie in to tile improvement and citizen allocation, but that I'm not sure of.

Flavor military training is not actually how likely they are to train military units, instead it's how likely they are to build Barracks and other XP boosting buildings. The priority on constructing military units is controlled through the combination of Offense, Defense, Mobile, etc.

I'm also pretty sure that the competitiveness - victory setting is about how angry a civ gets if they determine you are going after the same victory type that they are.

Flavor religion has a couple small effects: much more likely to take the Piety SP branch, and a little less likely to go for a Spaceship victory. That's it though, my thought is it is a placeholder ...

The 12 flavor nuke for Ghandi sure is strange, it sticks out like a sore thumb!
 
Thanks for the info. I guess this explains why AI's denounce me after conquering a CS (even though the CS declared war on me in the first place) and when all friendly AI's declare war when I conquer the second CS.

Still seems a little odd when you're fighting along several AI's againt Alex (at their invitation) and then they turn on you when you take over Alexander's pet CS.

At first I thought it was a mixed up effect with the defence pact causing the world do declare war on me.
 
In my games, Gandhi almost always builds nukes, I've never seen him use them though.
 
I'd be extremely happy if someone could make brief cool synopses with few lines for each Civ, kind of like:

"Elizabeth will build a powerful navy and hoard gold, but can't be trusted. She'll befriend city-states but doesn't care for wonders" (don't know if these are real facts)

Kind of like that, maybe even a bit longer. Yeah I'm greedy!
 
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