General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Been a huge fan of the Civ games since I lost some of my childhood to the original Civ, DOS version - building the world Wonders has always been a big part of the charm for me - but I think the model used by the games could be made even more fun. (and a bit more realistic, though - that's not a goal in itself).
Problem I propose to address:
Proposed Solution:
Some proposed "Achievement Wonders" just to give you a feel for the idea:
(I'm sure these would have to be adjusted for play balance)
I'm sure others could add to / greatly improve this list!
Edit: Note that many wonders would remain as "Construction Wonders" - Pyramids, Great Wall, Taj Mahal, Three Gorges Dam, etc.
I welcome feedback and discussion - mostly I'm posting this here in the hopes that lots of people will love this idea as much as I do, and somebody from Firaxis will see this idea and steal it for Civ 6
Happy Civ-ing everyone!
One other idea - not nearly as popular (so far) or as interesting as the achievement wonder idea outlined above.
My 2nd (less important) problem with the current wonder model in Civ5:
Winner Take All / First Place Only
We've all experienced the agony of losing a key wonder to a rival by just 1 turn. This makes some sense from a game-play standpoint, but can be pretty frustrating and un-fun also. (It also doesn't make much sense, if you've got the pyramids 98% built, notification that some far off land already built some pyramids will hardly cause you to scrap the whole thing for gold). The creation of some "National Wonders" in CivV helped to address this problem, but didn't go far enough, I think.
Proposed Solution:
Problem I propose to address:
Wonders allow strategy, instead of enhance it
This criticism is a bit subtle - but I think it would be more strategic and more fun if wonders were more oriented towards enhancing some strategy you were already pursing, instead of just reflecting industrial might alone. For example, the Great Colossus didn't all of a sudden make Rhodes a seafaring power - in fact, it was constructed BECAUSE they were a seafaring power, and it was more of a monument to a naval victory. The same could be said for many wonders - the Statue of Liberty doesn't draw immigrants to America, The Eiffel Tower didn't make France cultured, etc.
This criticism is a bit subtle - but I think it would be more strategic and more fun if wonders were more oriented towards enhancing some strategy you were already pursing, instead of just reflecting industrial might alone. For example, the Great Colossus didn't all of a sudden make Rhodes a seafaring power - in fact, it was constructed BECAUSE they were a seafaring power, and it was more of a monument to a naval victory. The same could be said for many wonders - the Statue of Liberty doesn't draw immigrants to America, The Eiffel Tower didn't make France cultured, etc.
Proposed Solution:
New Class of Wonders: Achievement Wonders
As the game stands now, there are 2 classes of wonders:
As the game stands now, there are 2 classes of wonders:
a) National Wonders: require you to have some building in every city before you can build the key wonder. Every player can build.
b) Construction Wonders: require an enormous investment of hammers to build.
I think both of these kinds of wonders should be retained - but I'd like to propose adding a 3rd kind of wonder...b) Construction Wonders: require an enormous investment of hammers to build.
c) Achievement Wonders: My idea for this was sparked by the "circumnavigation" bonus you used to get in Civ4. If you're not familiar with that, basically the first player to sail all the way around the world got a permanent +1 bonus to all of his ships movement.
I always loved that concept - rather than giving a ship bonus to someone who had a lot of industrial might, why not give that bonus to someone who prioritized getting Astronomy and building ships to explore the whole world? It was, I thought, a much more organic and rewarding kind of wonder... that better reflected strategy and choices of the player.
I propose adding more wonders like this / switching some of the current Wonders from Construction Wonders to Achievement Wonders. It would add strategy to the game, and allow players lacking in raw industrial might to still get some pretty awesome wonders. These would be 1 player only wonders. The player could select any city they want for the monument to built - but the monument itself would only provide some culture and some Great People points. The bonus would become a national trait.
I always loved that concept - rather than giving a ship bonus to someone who had a lot of industrial might, why not give that bonus to someone who prioritized getting Astronomy and building ships to explore the whole world? It was, I thought, a much more organic and rewarding kind of wonder... that better reflected strategy and choices of the player.
I propose adding more wonders like this / switching some of the current Wonders from Construction Wonders to Achievement Wonders. It would add strategy to the game, and allow players lacking in raw industrial might to still get some pretty awesome wonders. These would be 1 player only wonders. The player could select any city they want for the monument to built - but the monument itself would only provide some culture and some Great People points. The bonus would become a national trait.
Some proposed "Achievement Wonders" just to give you a feel for the idea:
(I'm sure these would have to be adjusted for play balance)
Magellan's Voyage
Achievement: First player to circumnavigate the globe
Reward: Permanent +1 Movement to all Ships
Statue of Liberty
Achievement: First player adopt both "Free Thought" and "Free Religion" social policies
Reward: +1 population all cities, All Specialists +2 production
The Oracle
Achievement: First player to generate over 500 faith
Reward: +1 free social policy
The Colossus
Achievement: First player to have a fleet of over 6 ships
Reward: +1 gold on water tiles for city of your choice
Big Ben
Achievement: First player to generate over 5,000 gold
Reward: -15% Gold Rushing costs in all cities
Marco Polo's Embassy
Achievement: First player to meet all other Civs
Reward: +20% gold from trade routes
Sun Tzu's War Academy
Achievement: First player to capture a rival city of size 4 or larger
Reward: +10xp all new units
Shakespeare's Theater
Achievement: First player to spark a golden age
Reward: +10 national happiness
Hollywood
Achievement: First player to generate over 50,000 culture
Reward: +4 "movie" luxury resource
Cristo Redentor
Achievement: First player to employ 25 artist specialists
Reward: +1 production, +1 gold for all artist specialists
The Orient Express
Achievement: First to connect 5 cities via railroad
Bonus: Railroad maintenance costs reduced by 1gpt (making them = to roads)
Idea from: Deggial
The National Geographic Institute
Achievement: First to find all Natural Wonders
Bonus: +5 National Happiness, +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
Idea from: Deggial
The Palace of Versailles
Achievement: First Player to ally with three City States
Bonus: Influence decays 25% slower
Idea from: Galgus
The Olympic Games
Achievement: First Player to enter their 3rd Golden Age
Bonus: Golden Ages last 25% longer
Idea from: Galgus
Achievement: First player to circumnavigate the globe
Reward: Permanent +1 Movement to all Ships
Statue of Liberty
Achievement: First player adopt both "Free Thought" and "Free Religion" social policies
Reward: +1 population all cities, All Specialists +2 production
The Oracle
Achievement: First player to generate over 500 faith
Reward: +1 free social policy
The Colossus
Achievement: First player to have a fleet of over 6 ships
Reward: +1 gold on water tiles for city of your choice
Big Ben
Achievement: First player to generate over 5,000 gold
Reward: -15% Gold Rushing costs in all cities
Marco Polo's Embassy
Achievement: First player to meet all other Civs
Reward: +20% gold from trade routes
Sun Tzu's War Academy
Achievement: First player to capture a rival city of size 4 or larger
Reward: +10xp all new units
Shakespeare's Theater
Achievement: First player to spark a golden age
Reward: +10 national happiness
Hollywood
Achievement: First player to generate over 50,000 culture
Reward: +4 "movie" luxury resource
Cristo Redentor
Achievement: First player to employ 25 artist specialists
Reward: +1 production, +1 gold for all artist specialists
The Orient Express
Achievement: First to connect 5 cities via railroad
Bonus: Railroad maintenance costs reduced by 1gpt (making them = to roads)
Idea from: Deggial
The National Geographic Institute
Achievement: First to find all Natural Wonders
Bonus: +5 National Happiness, +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
Idea from: Deggial
The Palace of Versailles
Achievement: First Player to ally with three City States
Bonus: Influence decays 25% slower
Idea from: Galgus
The Olympic Games
Achievement: First Player to enter their 3rd Golden Age
Bonus: Golden Ages last 25% longer
Idea from: Galgus
I'm sure others could add to / greatly improve this list!
Edit: Note that many wonders would remain as "Construction Wonders" - Pyramids, Great Wall, Taj Mahal, Three Gorges Dam, etc.
I welcome feedback and discussion - mostly I'm posting this here in the hopes that lots of people will love this idea as much as I do, and somebody from Firaxis will see this idea and steal it for Civ 6
Happy Civ-ing everyone!
Spoiler :
One other idea - not nearly as popular (so far) or as interesting as the achievement wonder idea outlined above.
My 2nd (less important) problem with the current wonder model in Civ5:
Winner Take All / First Place Only
We've all experienced the agony of losing a key wonder to a rival by just 1 turn. This makes some sense from a game-play standpoint, but can be pretty frustrating and un-fun also. (It also doesn't make much sense, if you've got the pyramids 98% built, notification that some far off land already built some pyramids will hardly cause you to scrap the whole thing for gold). The creation of some "National Wonders" in CivV helped to address this problem, but didn't go far enough, I think.
Proposed Solution:
1) Multiple Wonders allowed - only One "Great" Wonder
My suggestion is to allow multiples of most wonders to be built. This would eliminate the frustration of losing out by just a few turns on a key wonder.
This would have the added benefit of being a better reflection of reality - after all, multiple cultures built Pyramids - not just the Egyptians. The Chinese weren't the only ones to build a Great Wall - the Romans built one in England (Hadrian's wall), etc.
However, to preserve the fun of racing to a wonder - I'd suggest preserving extra bonuses exclusively for the FIRST person to build the wonder.
For example, the wonder bonus for the Pyramids could still be the 25% bonus to worker speed. Any player who builds the pyramids would get this bonus. The FIRST person to build the pyramids would have their pyramids named "The GREAT Pyramids" - and in addition to the 25% worker bonus, they would receive 2 free workers, 2 free Great Engineer points per turn, and maybe some kind of tourism bonus in the late game?
This would, I think, still provide plenty of incentive to try to get to wonders first - without being quite so frustrating.
Perhaps Wonders could also have a window of opportunity - if you don't start work on the Pyramids before the Medieval era, then you can never build them. This would add some urgency, and prevent your build options from becoming too cluttered.
My suggestion is to allow multiples of most wonders to be built. This would eliminate the frustration of losing out by just a few turns on a key wonder.
This would have the added benefit of being a better reflection of reality - after all, multiple cultures built Pyramids - not just the Egyptians. The Chinese weren't the only ones to build a Great Wall - the Romans built one in England (Hadrian's wall), etc.
However, to preserve the fun of racing to a wonder - I'd suggest preserving extra bonuses exclusively for the FIRST person to build the wonder.
For example, the wonder bonus for the Pyramids could still be the 25% bonus to worker speed. Any player who builds the pyramids would get this bonus. The FIRST person to build the pyramids would have their pyramids named "The GREAT Pyramids" - and in addition to the 25% worker bonus, they would receive 2 free workers, 2 free Great Engineer points per turn, and maybe some kind of tourism bonus in the late game?
This would, I think, still provide plenty of incentive to try to get to wonders first - without being quite so frustrating.
Perhaps Wonders could also have a window of opportunity - if you don't start work on the Pyramids before the Medieval era, then you can never build them. This would add some urgency, and prevent your build options from becoming too cluttered.