Polders can be built without chopping

Dutch polders can be built on tiles with forests and jungles (and keep the jungle science bonus). I don't think this is how they should work from a balance or flavor/realism perspective. It also looks weird visually, as the polder can be hidden beneath the forest.

Can other civs build farms on these tiles and keep the jungle? I'm not sure.

The biggest change with the polder was the addition of new terrain that allow it to be built upon: Grassland, Tundra, Plains & Desert. IMO this is not a good idea. Allowing this now means we see the above effect as jungles & forests appear on these tiles.

A much more flavorful role for polders is to return them to only the terrain type they were designed for, coastal & floodplains.

Can other civs build farms on these tiles and keep the jungle? I'm not sure.

Click to expand...

I don't think so, though I'm not certain. I dislike the idea of letting civs build farms on these kinds of tiles. They should be an obstacle to development in some cases, forcing you to cut before you can plant.

return them to only the terrain type they were designed for, coastal & floodplains

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I follow (what do you mean by "coastal"?). [To clarify the initial post: at the moment you can build them on any tile adjacent to coasts, and for forests and jungles adjacent to coasts you aren't required to clear that feature first. You can't build them on forests and jungles that are not adjacent to coasts.]

I think it is a great move to allow them to be built on flatland adjacent to coasts: it makes them useful rather than rare, and makes Netherlands into an interesting civ to play (coastal/tall). Arguably this shouldn't include deserts and maybe tundra, but definitely it should work for grassland or plains as long as they're next to a coast tile.
[And I'd probably be ok with leaving it for deserts and tundra: desert is still going to give a pathetic yield, and tundra is still going to give a low yield, and it's not really that weird to think of irrigated fields or reclaimed land in these kinds of areas.]

They shouldn't be buildable not adjacent to coasts, but I don't think they are. I'd oppose returning them to the vanilla BNW design, where you can only build on marsh and floodplain, because those terrains are so rare that the improvement becomes almost useless and is far too dependent on map spawn.

We added the tag 'Coastal' to polders in the same way Moai and Feitoria have it listed. I am not 100% sure, but I believe it is meant to allow them to be built on tiles ONLY when those are also on the coast.

So, if I am following you, the problem is the non-removal of jungle/forests when constructing the polder, not the other terrain types.

If so, I agree, it does make it strange that that isn't a prerequisite to construction and yes, though small, the yields from tundra/desert is still better than unimproved.

I think this may be the result of a vanilla oversight.
The other BUILD types, farm, camp, plantation etc. all have a reference in the table BuildFeatures which describes which tech is necessary to clear the feature and time it takes to do it and how much production you get from it. Polders don't appear in this table.

So for instance, if you want to build a farm and there is forest on the tile the tooltip shows you need Animal Husbandry before you can clear it. That being the tech that gives that ability. Now, although polders come much later than these techs and are never going to be shown that tooltip, the underlying problem exists. The game has no code that says "hey you must first clear this plot before building that", thus you can build them on top of these features.

As always, I plead ignorance if these assumptions are incorrect.

but I believe it is meant to allow them to be built on tiles ONLY when those are also on the coast.

Click to expand...

Right. This seems to be working.

So, if I am following you, the problem is the non-removal of jungle/forests when constructing the polder, not the other terrain types.

Click to expand...

Correct.

I think this may be the result of a vanilla oversight.
The other BUILD types, farm, camp, plantation etc. all have a reference in the table BuildFeatures which describes which tech is necessary to clear the feature and time it takes to do it and how much production you get from it. Polders don't appear in this table.

Click to expand...

This probably wasn't necessary in vanilla, because in vanilla polders were only buildable on marsh and flood plains, and there can never be forest or jungle on these terrain types.

Can polders have this reference added to their BuildFeatures table? That would fix the problem.

I'm not sure. I believe so. I have asked the others in the GitHub issues for more insight.
I think, like you, this should be a simple fix if the correct code is inserted.

I just made some additions and tested them.

The polder now shows with a text description in the tooltip that the jungle/forest will be removed and it does in fact remove the feature first.
Jungle/forest tiles now 'look' correct as polder.

Also gave the production for removing the forest. The same value as all other improvements.

Great! Thanks.