FfH2 0.33 Changelog

Maybe it`s time to add new graphics for cities from Vehems Fall Further?

Grey Fox said:

The free engineer has already been moved, to Machinery.

Click to expand...

Really very great move .Free forges in all cities that was like winning in national lottery for each nation

mahazel said:

Maybe it`s time to add new graphics for cities from Vehems Fall Further?

Click to expand...

I hope not. A few of the civs have very nice graphics, but in general I much prefer the normal religion specific graphics used in norma FfH.

does insane mean that perpentach gets a chance of getting the tolerant trait?

Kael said:

12. Bowers are now required to train Crossbowmen instead of Machinists shops.

23. Water bonuses won't spawn 3 tiles away from the coast.

Click to expand...

So Crossbowmen will be available with an earlier tech but their stats will remain the same as they are now?

Question on the change to water bonuses. I remember in a thread discussing the Kuriotates' Sprawling trait, you had said that placing resources on the basis of 3 rings rather than 2 rings was needed to make Sprawling an advantageous trait (or something like that, I don't have your post at hand to quote you exactly, and I apologize if I've misstated or misremembered your point).

I can understand why you'd make this change, since water bonuses 3 tiles away are useless for most civs, but wont this make Sprawling less of an advantage for the Kuriotates, especially in their coastal cities?

No.

And you can't pick it with adaptive.

On Crossbowmen: rather unlikely i think. They will need a different building as requirement (since the old one has been axed) not another tech. (like marksmen needing mithril to build and thus need mithril working researched.) So if anything its an additional requirement (Don't know if boyers are needed for machinery.).

On the seafood tiles: Problem with that is it made costlines especially uninteresting for all non-lanun civs (even Kuoritates might have a better chance to get more seafood in their bigger fatter cross now.). It doesn't look like anything else has been significantly changed on resource placement since on land thats not an issue i belive. And the civs chosing their cities based on 2 tiles doesn't sound like further changed placement. Just AI change. (hopefully Kuoritates are excluded from that. Who knows?)

Kael said:

It is an amazing feature, but it doesnt sound as sexy as it is in play. Puppets are not permanent summons, so Keelyn does get to keep 3 per caster. We really wanted to highlight Keelyns summoning trait with puppet's, we just couldnt figure out how until loki came up with this idea.

Puppets serve a few functions. They can go into dangerous areas to cast spells that the caster wants to stay back from (they can move and cast on the same turn). Keelyn gets 3 spells from each puppet over the 3 turns. And they can be used in place of the caster for spellcasting to avoid the negative effects (Balseraph casters never lose Mind 3 to the Domination spell).

Click to expand...

Can keelyn's puppets cast summoning spells? Does a single Keelyn Mage get 9 summons?

I'm assuming 'no' because someone would have thought of this already when you guys were testing... but I feel the need to ask anyway.

Sounds like she can. Whats wrong with that? She basically "only" has the summoner trait lategame as creative loses its appeal. (and Chaos 3 Druids are not a reliable source of summons anymore) In addition to the civs specials.

Also its just 9 if you continually cast those puppets even when not on target (those not necessarily reaching their target). Otherwise its "just" 6 over the cause of 3 Turns. (Since they vanish after 3 turns for Kyleen still and one caster can "only" call one puppet a turn) Thats "just" 3 more than with a regular summoning for those summons and less danger for the casting mage. Still rather impressive given (twice the number like twincast so they should be more or less on par with grigori archmages in regards to wonder now in Kyleens case.) but perhaps its supposed to be just that for her.
Only thing that should be prevented is a chaincast of puppets but it doesn't sound like anything else but adepts / mages and archmages beeing able to get those summons.
Another question whould be if they share all promotions or just the spells. (so empower and mobility for the summons are included.)
But we will see soon enough...

(Unless limited to one puppet for each caster which sounds unlikely. Given that Kyleen and highlighting her summoner-focus was explicitly stated as one of the motivations behing implementing puppets that way.)

Now if a puppet could summon a puppet!

= instant PC Lockup due to AI casting loop
aka
puppet-puppet... if you Lanun seadogs bother us to much we'll send over our bazilion army of puppets to drink up your ocean .

That loop was thought of LONG ago. There has been a block in place since .23 or so to remove the ability to cast any spell with a "CreateUnit" ability (a summon) from any unit with a duration (another summon). So Puppets won't be making puppets, Fire Elementals or even Skeletons.

Oh, bad for Kyleen then... and nice to know. But puppets still very helpful to her naturally. (Even though Skelletons don't have a duration. And its questionable if wonder is usable since its not directly such a spell. So...)
Means my above post is wrong (at least in large parts). Sorry for the misinformation.

Thanks for clarification of that point.

Still, well see soon enough...

However, they can cast Domination 12 (24 if Liches can cast puppet) times per turn without any risks.

Also, if an archmage has a spellstaff, does the puppet get one as well?

Well the Balseraphs are the civ of Kylorins prime student in Mind magic so that makes sense definately.

Nikis-Knight said:

(Of course, he also added a way to dominate, like, 24 units in one turn if you get really lucky with one particular leader.)

Click to expand...

We did get a hint at this quite some time ago in the Domination thread currently on page 2

Thats with spellstaff possibly.
With Spellstaffed liches it whould be 48 +8 ? + Those from Druids and World Casters. So i still put my bet on adepts + magi + archmagi only.

Yeah, I wouldn't entirely trust my math on that one. If the puppets can do spell staff the turn before, then that doubles the amount of spells they can cast that turn...

Blackmantle said:

Oh, bad for Kyleen then... and nice to know. But puppets still very helpful to her naturally. (Even though Skelletons don't have a duration. And its questionable if wonder is usable since its not directly such a spell. So...)
Means my above post is wrong (at least in large parts). Sorry for the misinformation.

Thanks for clarification of that point.

Still, well see soon enough...

Click to expand...

The block to prevent a summon from casting is in the "CanCast" function, to keep them from being allowed to cast the spell. Wonder does not check this, and does not DIRECTLY summon anything. Thus a puppet could freely cast Wonder.


As for spellstaves, if the puppet starts with ALL promotions that the summoning Mage had, then the puppet would be able to cast twice in that first turn. But that relies on Archamges being able to do puppets as well as mages (which is hopefully the case)

Puppets are availible to all Balseraph arcane units. So Puppets couldn't summons puppets anyway, they are able to summon other things, though.