1.9 faction balance

Ok, so it is the pedia text which is false (it say an early city attack unit). So crysfighter are like "defense-quad". I found them weak even to strike infantery outside cities. But ennemy infantry avoid attack them.

For bladesmen, they are very quick to move, because they have sandrider promotion, even if you haven't got research the stillsuit tech. Assuming you don't research just faith and fanatiscm but also some growing tech, you can always have blademen nearly in same time than crysfighter, and then, blademen are better in all, except on the middle of very large rocky area without desert to make fast move.

ps : my cris fighters don't have a +10% city attack bonus but a "ignore building city defense"

Ok, so it is the pedia text which is false (it say an early city attack unit)

Click to expand...

You *can* use them as a city attack unit, even against infantry, because their mobility means you can get a group of them to focus against a city that might well have only 1-2 infantry. But that isn't their only role. They are melee, and they do ignore city walls.

I found them weak even to strike infantery outside cities

Click to expand...

They're strength 4, vs strength 3 infantry. They're going to win that fight.

For bladesmen, they are very quick to move, because they have sandrider promotion

Click to expand...

Sandrider can slightly speed things up, but it still won't let you pillage + move on the same turn, so you're very slow on land.

my cris fighters don't have a +10% city attack bonus but a "ignore building city defense"

Click to expand...

He was talking about relative to quads; quads have a city attack penalty.

In any case, I find crysknife fighters very useful, and I'll often build a lot of them if I'm going with a Shai Hulad Fremen game rather than Mahdi, or if I'm planning an early economic expansion strategy rather than a city assault strategy. I also find in general that they come earlier, though that may be because of my bias in economy tech selection, I'd have to double-check the actual tech costs (but IIRC Fanaticism is fairly expensive relative to stillsuits).

They're strength 4, vs strength 3 infantry. They're going to win that fight.

Click to expand...

I which it could be so simple in the games I play...
But against an unpromoted infantry, only a 25% terrain bonus down the winning chances very low.

Maybe my opinion of their weakness could be spoil by the fact I have fight against cheated promoted rabban's units. So having your best marauding unit killed by infantry outside city, and being unable to fight them down, is little annoying

I have finally play with ecaz, which I never played yet, and I found them really flavourless, and their strategy very too close than ordos's. So I have think to ideas for improve them and found at least two :
- change de gladiator in a new unit, and not a replacement of hardened blademen. Because his suicide, it is not really a "replacement", and if you have already well promoted blademen, it is painfull to upgrade one in a gladiator by mistake
- or, a idea I found far better, delete the gladiator and replace the elaccan UU by a promotion which can be add to any unit (or maybe, only guardmen and melee ?). This promotion should give big power bonus, like +1 or +2, but also the unit became suicide. With that, ecaz can use all along the game of the drug bonus, and the player can choose precisely which unit could be drug in function of the events.

I also fund the semuta provider not so interesting : costly, and give a very small gold bonus, very long to improve. Maybe this building can be improved, to.

Interesting feedback. I am not sure *any* ecaz unit should get +1,+2 power due to suicide; does it make sense for armor, artillery, aircraft? But any *infantry* could make sense.

I have tested a promotion which use the kamikaze flag, with 50% bonus. Reserved to ecaz civ, and available to all unit except hornet. I don't know if it make sense to give it to other than infantry (maybe we can consider the druged pilot could be more agressive but careless, like any infantry guy ?) but for myself, I haven't found a opportunity to use it on something else than infantry in my game because of the cost of mechanical unit : I don't want sacrifice them... But maybe if it's the last hope ? But I think it could be give more way to play with no limitation to infantry only and give ecaz a potential critical power in any domain, less predictible than something limited to infantry
50% is already a huge bonus, and maybe it could be overpowered in the long run on later unit. To counter this, I have think :
- 30% bonus only.
- 50% bonus but limited to 10 units promoted in same time for all the faction.
Don't know which is the best.

ps : Is the IA can handle with this kind of promotion ?

Ideas for Ecaz:

Elacca Battledrug: +2 Firststrikes, -15% healingrate, available for guard & meele
(doesn´t heal in enemy territory, slowly in friendly, OK in city. Duke Vidal synergy)

Artist Fencers : requires Harsh Conditioning 7 ignores city defence, +25% vs guard & melee
(the fencers shape their fogwood weapons by willpower during fight, to gain advantage over enemy.
"The planet was the source of Fogwood, apparently favoured by artists because it could be shaped solely by human thought" source: http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Ecaz
Flavorful but not gamewinning unit for areal defence)

Building: Sculptors Garden -1 +2hammers:,,) cost 120
(Situational building good for minor cities)

I agree that Ecaz isn't really that interesting, and that the gladiator doesn't really "work".

The suicide-boost as promotion is interesting, but I worry about the AI either never taking it or taking it too much and suiciding their entire army.

The Battledrug idea is probably more workable.

I'm not sure about superior melee troops (artist fencers) really being in-theme. That could be really powerful, and a military focus isn't really in-flavor. And I don't think that fogwood is supposed to be of military benefit.

I'm not sure why a water penalty is for on the sculptor's garden. The extra trade route works better for their trade theme.

The fencer was supposed to add a little awesomeness by stretching the lore.
The unit is slightly weaker in citytaking, when compared to hardened bladesman, because thopters would not face the +25% citystrengt. On open ground he acts as a counter to foot-units with some mid game potential, when well promoted.

The garden is a source for plants they brought to arrakis. The garden needs water but provides goods to sell and use. This allows to maintain ecaz lifestile far away from home, reflected by culturepoints.

While the building is costly and inhibiting growth, the player might still value the culture and assured income. One food for two hammers/commerce is fair?

So basically a flavor-unit, a situational building and a good-when-played-right promotion for a trader-faction. And some possibilities to get away with deep beelines.

The suicide-boost as promotion is interesting, but I worry about the AI either never taking it or taking it too much and suiciding their entire army.

Click to expand...

yes, it could be very annoying

Battledrug is interesting but I don't think just +2 firststrike would be change really something. Maybe with the same idea than ducal promotions : limited number, huge power bonus, but healing penalty ?

Or maybe make more UU like gladiator, like 3, one in the first tier, and one later than gladiators. And like fremens unit, make them buildable with the ecazi ressource could be produce by the semuta provider. So you produce the national wonder, it give you 3 semuta (in addition to the +2 gold by city with semuta den), and you can produce druged units, and trade this ressource with your ally if you want.

I found interesting the idea of a new UB, because the only they have ins't really usefull, and it's a national wonder.

I think also there could be have more espionnage missions available to narcotic dealer, maybe something with trade route : is it possible to make a mission which steal one trade route for a period of time ? Or steal one strategic ressource like if you can force an adversary to give you a ressource in tribute, for a period of time ? I like the idea to improve the aspect addictive-thief-mercantile of ecaz, less militaristic than ordos and more oriented on economics. Merchants also, but more subtiles.
Maybe we could give ecaz the ability to recrute more mercenary with spatioport, an give them the choice to pick-up in other factions UU via the homeworld recruitement (powerfull but limited by the renewal rate) ?

Does the team want more suggestions?
You could give some broad guidelines for the factions.
This would allow some more focused feedback.