Game speed scaling exploits

What are some things that become much better or much worse as you change the game speed?

For instance, as spain, you still get 500 gold for discovering a wonder on quick speed, but everything costs less, so your gold bonus is multiplied for free just by changing game speed.

I also notice that trades are different. On standard, the AI gives you 2 gold per turn for 1 strategic ressource, but on other speeds they only give you 1.5 ( so you need to do 2 for 3 ).

What else is there that could make for a fun game?

edit: whoops wrong forum, meant for civ V sorry...

Germany, barbarians, marathon speed. Speed does not affect barbarian camp spawning.

Every other opponent needs to take dozens of turns to produce a single unit and you can recruit massive armies and roll over them while still in the ancient era.

Incidentally, don't try marathon and raging barbarians. It's hell. takes you so long to produce a second unit and the barbs can make new ones every 2-3 turns. xD

Religious city-states give you 8 or 4 faith regardless of game speed, so meeting one on quick speed can be enough to secure the first pantheon, which only requires 6 faith. Great Musicians are bugged and the game speed multiplier is applied twice, so on quick speed they're less powerful than they should be, while on epic and marathon they get a significant boost.

poxpower said:

What are some things that become much better or much worse as you change the game speed?

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It would be nice to have a comprehensive list, so I wish you luck on this thread!

The most basic thing is that movement is the same, while builds and costs are increased. So a Standard map size at Marathon should be easier for Domination than Standard map at Standard speed (since the only real threat to a Dom VC is an AI winning by CV or SV, and a Standard map size at Marathon speed essentially eliminates the time constraint).

Units with extra movement get more of a buff from Marathon and Epic than units with two movement.

danaphanous said:

Germany, barbarians, marathon speed. Speed does not affect barbarian camp spawning. Every other opponent needs to take dozens of turns to produce a single unit and you can recruit massive armies and roll over them while still in the ancient era.

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This one never occurred to me! Nice suggestion, and an exploit that is terrific fun!

Incidentally, don't try marathon and raging barbarians.

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How about Raging Barbarians, Marathon speed, and the Reformation belief that lets you recruit from barb camps?

2. City State gold gifts remain constant across all GAME SPEEDS and MAP SIZES and therefore are more valuable the FASTER the game speed (and possibly smaller the map, as I havn't tinkered to much with gold varience across these variables).

source:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1580535

apocalypse105 said:

2. City State gold gifts remain constant across all GAME SPEEDS and MAP SIZES and therefore are more valuable the FASTER the game speed (and possibly smaller the map, as I havn't tinkered to much with gold varience across these variables).

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Thanks, that seems to be best (i.e., closest to an exploit) excerpt from that article.

The tables from that article tell you things that do scale with game speed. We need to be thinking of gold and hammers effects that don’t scale with game speed.

Any factor that scales probably scales approximately a proportionate amount. How are GP bulbs of GS, GE, GA, and GM (both types) affected by game speed?

This is a guess but I think bulbs are still the sum of the past 8 turns. If this is the case then they are a lot more powerful on fast game speeds then slow ones. But this may be wrong.

GP bulbs are scaled. Only exception is GM where the concert tour strength is multiplied by the game speed, but incorrectly multiplied twice. So on quick, the GM is weaker, and on Epic and Marathon, it is stronger.

ah, ok thanks.

How much the AI values certain trades. I'm pretty sure luxes are 200 gold on quick, embassies are 25, strategics are 37.

I'm pretty sure open borders always lasts 50 turns.

I'm pretty sure peace treaties (and DoW deals) are 10 turns on both quick and standard.

Trade deals are 25 turns on quick, 30 on standard (I think RAs are the same as well)

Cost of a settler is 370/500/680/1160

The slower you go, the less you benefit from production focus trick

GP should bulb for 5.28 turns on quick but they bulb for 5.36

Faith cost of GP is 670 on quick, should be 660.

WTKLD on quick probably isn't scaled properly

A lot of these come up because of rounding between standard and quick

Faith ruins only show up on t20 and later, regardless of speed

Iamteehee said:

How much the AI values certain trades. I'm pretty sure luxes are 200 gold on quick, embassies are 25, strategics are 37.

I'm pretty sure open borders always lasts 50 turns.

I'm pretty sure peace treaties (and DoW deals) are 10 turns on both quick and standard.

Trade deals are 25 turns on quick, 30 on standard (I think RAs are the same as well)

Cost of a settler is 370/500/680/1160

The slower you go, the less you benefit from production focus trick

GP should bulb for 5.28 turns on quick but they bulb for 5.36

Faith cost of GP is 670 on quick, should be 660.

WTKLD on quick probably isn't scaled properly

A lot of these come up because of rounding between standard and quick

Faith ruins only show up on t20 and later, regardless of speed

Click to expand...

200 on quick for lux is correct and in proportion re standard at 8 * duration.

Open borders are 25/30 on quick/standard, same as other deals.

General multiplier for quick is 0.67, so 5.36 for bulbs and 670 for GP look right to me, why do you think otherwise?

Incidentally, I believe bulb is 0.67 * (last 8 turns) so you have to wait a little longer, in real terms, to get the benefit of a step up in yield.

Settler cost on quick does seem to be higher than in proportion - any idea why?

Oops, I thought multipler for quick was .66

2 is still inconsistent though because the AI values both at 50 gold (or at least that's what the wiki says)

Let me summarize what is said so far for posterity

1. Spain gold bonus for discovering wonders is same on all game speed --> more powerful on quick where things are cheaper

2. Barbarian Spawn and camp spawn rates are the same on all game speeds --> germany can build an army far quicker then anyone else. Gold and culture from barbs is scaled though.

3. CS gift influence is the same on all game speeds as is CS gold extortion meaning all are more powerful on quicker speeds

4. movement speeds and xp acquisition are the same meaning war and conquest is easier on long game speeds.

5. Most GP bulbs scale correctly but the great musician has an error where the modifier is multiplied twice making them less powerful on quick and more powerful on longer speeds.

Rumors that need confirming:

- Settler costs do not scale properly on quick
- WLTKD duration scale or not?
- I think AI gold offerings and trade durations are balanced but if anyone knows differently let me know of any errors/bugs in the system!
- Songhai gets more gold per camp on the longer game speeds? Can someone confirm? If so this is unbalanced because camp spawn rates are not affected meaning Songhai would already get more gold over the same time periods. If this rumor is true it means they get effectively more gold on longer game speeds not to mention camps are around longer.

I'm not sure about city states. I'm usually play on epic speed.
minimum what i can lose is -0,37 infulence per turn. I'm not sure what is minumim on other speed, but if i remember correctly is impossible to have -0.37 per turn on standard speed, is minimum -0.5 i think. This is correct?? (i'm not talking about Greece)

if you donate 1,000 gold for 60 influence. that will last for 120 turn on standard and 162 turn on epic. so is more powerful on longer.

or maybe that is connected with map size also? if is connected with map size then i don't know

I'm not sure about this, may be someone else know better? Same degradations on all speeds and map size or not?

Also I think ancient ruins give the same amounts of gold on quick (50-100). Seems I get to buy workers with gold from ruins a lot more often.