Unique Units elimination thread

Chu-Ko-Nu - 4
Keshik - 5

Yeah so keshik is the best unit. As said before, not happy about CKN low combat strength. Doesn't have the insane speed to make up for it.
 
Chu-Ko-Nu - 0
Keshik - 6

Went with the Keshik. I do not care if they upgrade and their promotions become because they switch to melee, by then the game can be completely won. A hoard of these fast maneuvering units is almost impossible to stop!


Thanks for the fun everyone; Tabarnak for creating the thread!
 
yes! Keshik wins!!!
 
Here are the results :

Final ranking

1. Keshik
2. Chu-Ko-Nu
3. Longbowman
4. Janissary
5. Camel Archer
6. Minutemen
7. Carolean
8. Ship of the Line
9. Horse Archer
10. Sea Beggar
11. Battering Ram
12. Dromon
13. Jaguar
14. Legion
15. Companion Cavalry
16. Mohawk Warrior
17. Foreign Legion
18. Hussar
19. Immortal
20. Hwach'a
21. War Elephant
22. Pictish Warrior
23. Landsknecht
24. Naresuan's Elephant
25. Tercio
26. Conquistador
27. Ballista
28. Berserker
29. Musketeer
30. Cataphract
31. Atlatist
32. Samurai
33. African Forest Elephant
34. Cossack
35. B17
36. Mandekalu Cavalry
37. Sipahi
38. Quinquereme
39. Panzer
40. Norwegian Ski Infantry
41. Mehal Sefari
42. Bowmen
43. Turtle Ship
44. Hakkapeliitta
45. Hoplite
46. Slinger
47. War Chariot
48. Maori Warrior
49. Zero

GODS & KINGS TOP 3 UNITS

1st Keshik :trophy:
2nd Chu-Ko-Nu :trophy2nd:
3rd Longbowman :trophy3rd:

Comparative results from the Vanilla version of the Unique Units elimination thread(a year ago) :

1st Janissary :trophy:
2nd Samurai :trophy2nd:
3rd Foreign Legion :trophy3rd:

Analysis : There is an obvious difference between the 2 versions of the game. Ranged units are way more useful in GnK and melee units were quite useful in vanilla, making results a lot different from a version to another. The appearance of the gatling gun both enhanced the Chu-ko-nu and the Longbowman as well.
 
historically accurate that keshiks (mongols) should crush chukonus (chinese).. not even sure why this was even a contest tbh
 
In the UA elimination thread I've been defending Polynesia as an underrated civ. Essentially I've said they only work to their full potential with their moai unique terrain upgrade and UU (moari warrior) in order to really excel as a civ so I guess what I'm saying is I would have Maori Warrior ranked higher than War Chariot, Slinger, Mandekalu Cavalry and a bunch of others that I don't think are really synergetic with their civs. But it's about the unit themselves so I guess I can understand even though i humbly disagree

As for Keshiks...yes! Really thought CKN was gonna win. That mobility...just so fun
 
Longbow should have won D:
 
I think the downfall of the Longbow and the CKN was that people who were voting for one were voting down the other while the Keshik crowd was always against one of the crossbow units. If it had come head to head CKN vs Crossbow...
 
I think the downfall of the Longbow and the CKN was that people who were voting for one were voting down the other while the Keshik crowd was always against one of the crossbow units. If it had come head to head CKN vs Crossbow...
Yeah, Janissary and Minutemen ran into the same problem, only earlier. I'd have honestly preferred both of them to the Chu and Longbow units.
 
I would place them both above the horse archer Knight replacements. For me it is more of a toss up between the two gunpowder units and the two crossbow units. I don't find ranged replacements for Knights which have a limited shelf life and no viable upgrade path to be very appealing. In my ranking, they wouldn't even rate the top 10.

The crowd has spoken though...
 
Although I still haven't played Gods and Kings, I imagine that Keshiks are marginally better in the VANILLA post-Renaissance era than they are in the Gods and Kings post-Renaissance era. I'm not quite sure why I haven't seen anyone draw a distinction between vanilla Keshiks and Gods and Kings Keshiks.

Why? Well, it has everything to do with the finer granularity of damage in Gods and Kings. It is VERY common for a Keshik attack to only do one point of damage to a city in the post-Renaissance era in Vanilla. I imagine it is the same case for Gods and Kings.

However, one point of Vanilla damage is equivalent to 10 points of Gods and Kings damage, as I understand it. Also, maximum city hit points are increased by defensive buildings in Gods and Kings, unlike in vanilla, where maximum city hit points stays constant.

Which ultimately means that it takes 20+ Keshik attacks in vanilla Civ V to reduce a city down to zero hit points. When I'm playing the Mongolians, I could easily have 8 Keshiks with Logistics, range and Indirect fire by the post-Renaissance era...20 attacks on a city with 8 elite Keshiks takes five turns in the worst case.

Contrast that to Gods and Kings where it could easily take 200+ Keshik attacks to reduce a city's hit points down to zero in the post-Renaissance era. Even if I did have 8-10 elite Keshiks, it would take twenty turns to batter that city down to zero, and that's assuming that the city doesn't heal at all.

Is my understanding of Keshiks in Gods and Kings spot on?
 
Although I still haven't played Gods and Kings, I imagine that Keshiks are marginally better in the VANILLA post-Renaissance era than they are in the Gods and Kings post-Renaissance era. I'm not quite sure why I haven't seen anyone draw a distinction between vanilla Keshiks and Gods and Kings Keshiks.

Why? Well, it has everything to do with the finer granularity of damage in Gods and Kings. It is VERY common for a Keshik attack to only do one point of damage to a city in the post-Renaissance era in Vanilla. I imagine it is the same case for Gods and Kings.

However, one point of Vanilla damage is equivalent to 10 points of Gods and Kings damage, as I understand it. Also, maximum city hit points are increased by defensive buildings in Gods and Kings, unlike in vanilla, where maximum city hit points stays constant.

Which ultimately means that it takes 20+ Keshik attacks in vanilla Civ V to reduce a city down to zero hit points. When I'm playing the Mongolians, I could easily have 8 Keshiks with Logistics, range and Indirect fire by the post-Renaissance era...20 attacks on a city with 8 elite Keshiks takes five turns in the worst case.

Contrast that to Gods and Kings where it could easily take 200+ Keshik attacks to reduce a city's hit points down to zero in the post-Renaissance era. Even if I did have 8-10 elite Keshiks, it would take twenty turns to batter that city down to zero, and that's assuming that the city doesn't heal at all.

Is my understanding of Keshiks in Gods and Kings spot on?

Not really of massive importance:
1) It takes ages before you get to 1 damage per hit, there's a long period when it does 5-10 damage, which would take a bit longer than in vanilla, but when you're taking a city every 1 or 2 turns it not much to worry about.
2) The game has already been decided by the time this becomes important. Either you survive to chivalry and crush everyone or you got taken out early. post reneissance, an extant mongolia in good hands will have already crushed the majority of the globe and will just be mopping up. So it takes a little longer to mop up. Meh.
3) So upgrade them to landships then (with march). The period of their reduced potency is rather small.
4) 8-10 elite keshiks? Why think so small :). I'll usually end up with about 20, most with logistics. In fact, the biggest problem in keshiks in vanilla was when you did occasionally subject the keshiks to an enemy attack, they would die in the one hit they got (mostly from AI kamikaze cavalry). In GnK this is rarer, and imo a keshik hoard is even harder to stop in GnK than vanilla. With the upcoming patch they won't even have to stop to heal.
 
Not really of massive importance:
1) It takes ages before you get to 1 damage per hit, there's a long period when it does 5-10 damage, which would take a bit longer than in vanilla, but when you're taking a city every 1 or 2 turns it not much to worry about.

Hmmm...I assumed the damage dropoff for Keshik damage to cities in Gods and Kings was greater than or equal to the dropoff in vanilla.

By the time I hit the Industrial era in vanilla, my Keshiks rarely do more than one damage/attack, but I can usually bring a lot of Keshiks to bear in a single turn by that point.


2) The game has already been decided by the time this becomes important. Either you survive to chivalry and crush everyone or you got taken out early. post reneissance, an extant mongolia in good hands will have already crushed the majority of the globe and will just be mopping up.

That's been my experience when playing as Mongolia, but I haven't played many games with Mongolia that require trans oceanic amphibious assaults, which imply games that have yet to be decided in the late Renaissance/early Industrial Age.

I didn't want to have Navigation handicapping my progress. :p

It's good to hear that proper use of Keshiks can decide a game even on Continents maps.

Edit: I also forgot to mention the Knight buff in Gods and Kings. In vanilla, Keshiks had 2 more movement points than the unit they replace. In Gods and Kings, they only have 1 more movement point. :(
 
Hmmm...I assumed the damage dropoff for Keshik damage to cities in Gods and Kings was greater than or equal to the dropoff in vanilla.

By the time I hit the Industrial era in vanilla, my Keshiks rarely do more than one damage/attack, but I can usually bring a lot of Keshiks to bear in a single turn by that point.




That's been my experience when playing as Mongolia, but I haven't played many games with Mongolia that require trans oceanic amphibious assaults, which imply games that have yet to be decided in the late Renaissance/early Industrial Age.

I didn't want to have Navigation handicapping my progress. :p

It's good to hear that proper use of Keshiks can decide a game even on Continents maps.

Edit: I also forgot to mention the Knight buff in Gods and Kings. In vanilla, Keshiks had 2 more movement points than the unit they replace. In Gods and Kings, they only have 1 more movement point. :(

I was comparing the two different mechanics not the higher city strength, cos the higher city strength is true for all units and strategies. Generally I've never really found a problem with the thin end of the 1 point damage mechanic while it's been important.
Ya, continents is no prob, buy/use a coastal CS and invade from land (likely there'll be some free space anyway).
Yeah admittedly the faster knights is more of a problem, but they now don't one hit ko keshiks so it's not really a big problem.
 
I would place them both above the horse archer Knight replacements. For me it is more of a toss up between the two gunpowder units and the two crossbow units. I don't find ranged replacements for Knights which have a limited shelf life and no viable upgrade path to be very appealing. In my ranking, they wouldn't even rate the top 10.

The crowd has spoken though...

The "Upgrade promo loss" and "limited shelf life" arguments are matters of paper and not practice when it comes to these units. If you are mongols, get some horses, get your keshiks (off promoed chariots if possible) and turn the world mongol, no other unit can do it so quickly, so efficiently, and so "untouchable-y" - as in you can roll a diety world without loosing even 1 unit.

They deserve the spot. I totally feel like a cheat when i play as the mongols because of that unit.

Once they are promoted- which they do extremely fast, they are viable
Past early gunpowder. If you havent rolled the whole world- or enough to easily win, at that point, then you didnt utilize them correctly. (you as in the general "you")
 
They deserve the spot. I totally feel like a cheat when i play as the mongols because of that unit.

I have three comments.

1. It is interesting to note that the Keshik's last two competitors were so similar. One wonders what the result of a poll would be if the choices were the Keshik and a combined Longbowman/Chu Ko Nu.

2. I am still a bit saddened that the Khan was not a valid choice for a Unique Unit. I'm curious to see how many cuts it would have survived if it were included.

3. I'd also be curious to see how the scenario specific Unique Units would have fared against the "standard" Unique Units. The only one I can think of is the Huscarl from the 1066 scenario, but I'm sure Gods and Kings introduced other scenarios with Unique Units.
 
khan would have got my vote, it's the main reason i play the mongols. keshik is nice but doesn't last the entire game, the khan is like turning all of your units into immortals, which to me is more fun than an era-specific unit. another nice thing with the khan is that the extra movement lets you get into key spots in enemy territory to build citadels and gobble land - standard gg it's much more risky to throw yourself onto a hill in enemy territory, chances of having the defending unit killed and lose your gg is too high.

also, not sure why all the writing off of the landship/tank upgrade path. i find tanks extremely powerful and useful and tanks with march + the khan healing = a mobile destruction force almost as good as keshiks (big almost)
 
khan would have got my vote, it's the main reason i play the mongols. keshik is nice but doesn't last the entire game, the khan is like turning all of your units into immortals, which to me is more fun than an era-specific unit. another nice thing with the khan is that the extra movement lets you get into key spots in enemy territory to build citadels and gobble land - standard gg it's much more risky to throw yourself onto a hill in enemy territory, chances of having the defending unit killed and lose your gg is too high.

It is possible to have ranged units across a 10 hex wide front and to have a single Khan give all of those ten ranged units combat bonuses without the ranged units moving

It's the Unique Unit that can be obtained in the Ancient Era to the Future Era, never becomes obsolete and never needs to be upgraded.

People downvote the Keshik for its shelf life or its loss of promotions. Guess what? The Khan never loses its abilities, unless it is killed. How's THAT for shelf life? :D
 
Khan doesn't attack so can't be in the UU category. However, if there was a unique great person elimination thread, I reckon it'd run away with that one.
 
Think about a whole situation. YOU WANT these ranged units before anything else when preparing for a war in GnK.

Top 3 spots deserve the win. There wasn't a consensus at all after all. All of them would have been 1st if somebody voted before another. It's pratically random.
 
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