Recalled to life!!

L

Leuthesius

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
29
You restored their civilization after they were annihilated!
You shared your intrigue with them.
You have no contested borders.
You have gone to war in the past.
You have made a declaration of friendship with one of their enemies!
You have denounced a leader that they declared friendship with!
You captured their original Capital.
They believe you are a warmongering menace to the world!

They don't want to be my friend.
They declared war on me early in the game. I stomped them into the ground, but didn't finish them off. Babylon and Mongolia did that.

But I save them and they don't want to be my friend?
Resurrecting a faction from the annals of history should have a lot more weight.

How do I mod the game so that this thing makes more sense for this sort of thing?
They should be friendly towards me, not hostile, despite a rocky past.
 
"You captured their original capital"
"You have denounced a leader that they declared friendship with"
"You have made a declaration of friendship with one of their enemies"

Take a hint from the "You have gone to war in the past", they don't like you because of the previous comments. Why trying to be buddies with someone that sacked and still owns your capital? There's nothing to mod because it makes quite a bit of sense.
 
I think I found a similar problem with liberating a CS.

In the past I have liberated a CS and they were my ally for a good while after that.

In my last game, however, I liberated a CS that was near me after it was being attacked by (surprise,surprise) Genghis. I gained enough influence with them to be allies for about 2 measly turns.

I think it might have been because I allowed them to be captured. It would make sense IRL. I don't recall pledging to protect them. But, perhaps the CS AI isn't that complex and that particular (Zurich) CS was just very independent.
 
Hmm...

so once I was playing as Washington and Bismarck had wiped out Napoleon. After some hard combat I liberated Paris. At first I was a friend but they soon denounced me. Now Bismarck and Napoleon are besties.

OK you got me! I'm just attempting to point out that, although it can be irritating IMHO the game mechanics on this one are not that far-fetched. Human nature invariably remembers bad things you did longer than good ones - next time just puppet!
 
JustinianIV said:
I think I found a similar problem with liberating a CS.

In the past I have liberated a CS and they were my ally for a good while after that.

In my last game, however, I liberated a CS that was near me after it was being attacked by (surprise,surprise) Genghis. I gained enough influence with them to be allies for about 2 measly turns.

I think it might have been because I allowed them to be captured. It would make sense IRL. I don't recall pledging to protect them. But, perhaps the CS AI isn't that complex and that particular (Zurich) CS was just very independent.
Click to expand...

In one of my last games I liberated a CS, that was conquered by Mongolia while beeing allied to Ethiopia (Gengis DoW Hallie and conquered Hanoi). I liberated them when being at war with both - Mongolia and Ethiopia. As a result, the CS I liberated, DoW me the moment I clicked on "liberate", because it had more leftover influence with Ethiopia than with me - their liberator - logic, huh?! As a result the city has fallen next turn again, cause I had to conquer it.
 
Walter R said:
Hmm...

so once I was playing as Washington and Bismarck had wiped out Napoleon. After some hard combat I liberated Paris. At first I was a friend but they soon denounced me. Now Bismarck and Napoleon are besties.

OK you got me! I'm just attempting to point out that, although it can be irritating IMHO the game mechanics on this one are not that far-fetched. Human nature invariably remembers bad things you did longer than good ones - next time just puppet!
Click to expand...

Bismark and Napoleon were pretty clever guys. How do you know this whole thing wasn't just a big ruse to steal victory from the soulless human player?
 
Leuthesius said:
You restored their civilization after they were annihilated!
You shared your intrigue with them.
You have no contested borders.
You have gone to war in the past.
You have made a declaration of friendship with one of their enemies!
You have denounced a leader that they declared friendship with!
You captured their original Capital.
They believe you are a warmongering menace to the world!

They don't want to be my friend.
They declared war on me early in the game. I stomped them into the ground, but didn't finish them off. Babylon and Mongolia did that.

But I save them and they don't want to be my friend?
Resurrecting a faction from the annals of history should have a lot more weight.

How do I mod the game so that this thing makes more sense for this sort of thing?
They should be friendly towards me, not hostile, despite a rocky past.
Click to expand...

A guy I used to know tried to start a fight with me but I kicked his head in and moved into his house and let him live in his old shed . A couple of guys i know broke into the shed and really smashed him up but I turned up and got them to leave him alone and I put him back in the shed . The guy still don't like me much . Ungrateful Git !
 
You captured their original Capital
Click to expand...

Never expect a civ to be friendly with you if you own their capital.
If they look friendly it's only because they are being deceptive and they have more pressing problems.
 
My personal favorite is when I liberate a civ that I never had any directly hostile interaction with in the past, and then a few turns afterward they come to me and complain that they see my units massing on their borders. Umm.... I'm still fighting your erstwhile oppressor, and we have automatic open borders....
 
I once liberated Pacal in the Future Era. He died in the classical era. So he still had classical era stuff. I felt bad for him and gave him some GDRs and Mech Inf. He then made a bunch of catapults and pikemen and tried to take over nearby Germany. So I had to bail him out again.
 
JustinianIV said:
I gained enough influence with them to be allies for about 2 measly turns.
Click to expand...

I think you only get 60 points of influence for liberating a CS. I would love to see that doubled. Random quests, like finding a Natural Wonder or connecting a resource, I think are worth 40 points. OTOH, my last game a liberated a CS four or five times in a row over six or seven turns. It was sweet how the CS jumped back to half strength each time. I was allies with them for the rest of the game!
 
I think the main bone here, is that if:
1) I am not the one who declared war, they got what they deserve.
2) I pulled their civilization from the trash heap of history, I saved them. They owe me, even IF I own their capital after they launched a sneak attack on me, took two cities initially, and converted three of my cities to their religion.
 
I'd favour modifiers that work with the ideology system - for example, recalling a civ to life, or liberating a capital or CS, would give you a diplo bonus with Freedom civs and that civ's former friends, while holding onto it would cause a diplo penalty with everyone (possibly except for Autocracy civs), and a stronger penalty for Freedom civs. That could replace the current "destroyed a civ" modifier.
 
PhilBowles said:
I'd favour modifiers that work with the ideology system - for example, recalling a civ to life, or liberating a capital or CS, would give you a diplo bonus with Freedom civs and that civ's former friends, while holding onto it would cause a diplo penalty with everyone (possibly except for Autocracy civs), and a stronger penalty for Freedom civs. That could replace the current "destroyed a civ" modifier.
Click to expand...

Or you could install a friendly form of government to your tastes. After all its not unheard of in history :evil:
 
Necro-ing this topic, but anyone knows what is England's likelihood to spy on you after you recall them to life? I am the tech leader. I have a declaration of friendship with them... and playing as Russia. King difficulty. England is more than 20 techs behind.
But anyway, I want them to spy on me so I can kill their spy.. but is it even likely for them to do so?
 
Xepthrichros said:
Necro-ing this topic, but anyone knows what is England's likelihood to spy on you after you recall them to life? I am the tech leader. I have a declaration of friendship with them... and playing as Russia. King difficulty. England is more than 20 techs behind.
But anyway, I want them to spy on me so I can kill their spy.. but is it even likely for them to do so?
Click to expand...

If Lizzy is 20 techs behind, you can bet your ass she will be looking for techs to steal, regardless of who it is from (don't have the time to look through all the logic right now, but if previous game experience counts for anything, they will spy on friends unless they explicitly accept the "Please stop spying on me" demand/request).

IIRC, the AI just does a loop through all potential target cities and places spies in the cities with the highest "Potential" (or whatever it's called).
 
Leuthesius said:
You restored their civilization after they were annihilated!...
Click to expand...
They are now compelled to vote for you in world leader votes. Unless they get wipped out and another civ recalls them to life.

Biologist said:
...and then a few turns afterward they come to me and complain that they see my units massing on their borders. Umm.... I'm still fighting your erstwhile oppressor, and we have automatic open borders....
Click to expand...
The outcome of this is that you have promised not to DOW them for 50 turns which is a private declaration. Compare to a DOF which is a public declaration. If you DOW the hate is roughly the same in both cases so they are the ones benefiting as your enemies might not hate them, which they probably would if a DOF was proposed. Although annoying I consider this good play by the AI.

beetle said:
I think you only get 60 points of influence for liberating a CS...
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's 150 influence.
 
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