Bug Report and Suggestions 1.08

Manu_b

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
23
Hello everyone,

Since Dale posted that the Apolyton Forums wont discuss the AoD II Mod anymore and the reports should go here i am posting a summarized list of the encountered Problems so far. They are not in specific Order or sorted somehow just.:

1) RS System: One Main problem which Dale said is a bug in the other Forum would be that newly built, born, specialized or educated Units start with 0% RS instead of the % of the Town where they come from. This makes it very hard to keep the RS on a good lvl.

2) RS System: Diplomacy with the King doesnt really seem to have a real noticable effect. In both ways no matter how i answered i never saw a 1% rise or drop of GRS. Kinda wondering how big this effect is suppossed to be.

3) Missionaries: Loosing a mission in the starting game or mid game section is really hurtfull atm. Missionaries still dont count the active missions to determine the success chance of a new mission but instead just count down how many successfull missions you had all the game long. Hence the chance is ever dropping and even if you lost all of your 5 missions never going up again.

4) Unit Problem/AI?: SoL and other Military Ships which have a standard Cargo of 0 show very strange AI behaviour when you upgrade them with Cargo Bays. As example the SoL when told to go explore with a Cargo Bay is rushing to the nearest unit which is standing on a Coastal Tile or sleeping. Loads this Unit up and than simply goes back and forth between 2 Tiles near the Coastal Tile where it loaded up.

5) Unit Problems: Military Ships with a Cargo Bay gaining a Space of 1 can load Treasure Units.

6) Nation Traits: Chinese Trait not stacking with Cyrus (Endtree Trade FF); Russian Trait same as 3rd and easily reached Military FF; i guess there are more to find. Eventually those nations can get a different bonus out of the FF? instead of another free stockade maybe 5 Soldiers or whatsoever?

7) RS System: Soldiers with 100% RS and being flagged as Rebels dont gain any fighting upgrades for being there. I think if we get away from the "town specific" RS we should give the fighting upgrades as well out of Town area.

8) RS System: WT and Trade Goods really shouldnt have an own RS imo. WT is discussable once the bug with the newly created Units is fixed but Trade goods duh...

9) RS System: Especially on Large Empires it gets REALLY messy if you press F3 and check your GRS or the REF. If the Comp is a little bit older (2 years) i can go drink a coffee while this loads up. Not sure what exactly happends there if its calculating something real big or if its just the massive ammount of the Single Units which it needs to show. Especially on larger Empires or in the Endgame the whole screen doesnt really provide any usefull Information cause the Units clutter up in front all over the Bar no chance to really see which unit is standing where. Maybe instead of showing each Unit show 1 Unit each Profession each state? as in 1 ES being Tory 1 ES being Rebel 1 ES being arround 50% and on mouseover state how many Units there are..?

10) Game System: Currently playing a game with Rapid expansion on my Side with 23 Enemies... What happends once i reached the Number of Towns which are predefined by Name in the Mod Files the Game crashes to Desktop. If i go and wipe Enemy Towns before i build another Town all goes well. Eventually there is some Problem with Max Towns per Map? As well if i wipe enemy Towns and build new ones i ever have a "blablaPIRATECOUNCIL..." thing like Name on Town build.

11) Game System: Playing Chinese is like 30 Towns named "New xyz" kinda annoying to get those sorted somehow or even remember which is which...

12) REF Size: Seems like with the latest Patch there is a Problem with REF Size again. 15 Towns each producing 24 Bells each Turn sum up to 360 Bells each Turn. Every 10 or so Turns King adds 40+ Units to the REF. these 15 Towns have a chance to each rise RS of Units arround 1-4% each Turn. Hence i probable need to have this going up for arround 50 Turns resulting in a REF increase of 200+ Units...

13) Enemy AI: Not sure where the Problem really lies but the AI doesnt seem to get the RS system known. I played a few Games now with no war with no interferrence on my Side and played till gametime ran up and never ever encountered a DoI of an AI.

14) Enemy AI: China Australia Russia all start in same Tile no matter what size or whatsoever is choosen on Custom Game. Especially these 3 AIs are stupid as Hell. in 9 out of 10 Games these 3 Nations settle next to each other with maybe 2 Tiles apart and no matter how big the Island really is. Ending up most of the Times that 1 of the 3 can possible expand and rest just sits there doing basically nothing for rest of game.

15) Trade System: Large Empires = Massive Trade Ammount = stupid pricing System. Doesnt really feel right if i sell everything at 1 gold no matter if i need to work on the Stuff once or even Twice of Guns. imo there should be a minimum Price. Like 1 Gold for Raw Materials; 3 Gold for Manufactured Goods; 4-5 Gold for Silver and Horses; 5-7 Gold for Tools and Guns.

16) Game System: Freedom Time of IS and PC is too high now i think. should go back to the old lvl and have the auto-edu rise. Eventually another Feature for them do be usefull or simply a speed up button so i can pay for their freedom if its unwanted to turn back the freedom time. Right now once i settled beyond the first 5-7 Colonies i just delete the crap. Takes too long and drops GRS too much for them to just sit somwhere and do nothing

Wish List:

1) On DoI in Col 1 you could get Help from another Nation if you produced enough Bells. Would be real Fun to see that again.
2) Some Kind of Idle Production System. Dunno what exactly but something i can Turn on like Point Production which only stops if i cancel it. Maybe getting 1 Gold per 3 Hammers or 1 Trade Good per 5 Hammer not sure really just something to avoid the need to make zillions of Cannons or WTs and not have to remove everything of Town.
3) More Diplomacy Features. Bargaining with Leaders and so on.
4) Bonuses for Goody Huts revamped.


I hope i caught all now if not i will just add to the List later if i encounter more.

regards

Manu
 
Hi Im,

Nice post mate.

2) RS System: Diplomacy with the King doesnt really seem to have a real noticable effect. In both ways no matter how i answered i never saw a 1% rise or drop of GRS. Kinda wondering how big this effect is suppossed to be.

I think it is interesting. It was noticeable for me, but even if it was twice as strong it wouldn't harm.


3) Missionaries: Loosing a mission in the starting game or mid game section is really hurtfull atm. Missionaries still dont count the active missions to determine the success chance of a new mission but instead just count down how many successfull missions you had all the game long. Hence the chance is ever dropping and even if you lost all of your 5 missions never going up again.

Also I would add here, missionaries should return back when indians decide to offer their land.

6) Nation Traits: Chinese Trait not stacking with Cyrus (Endtree Trade FF); Russian Trait same as 3rd and easily reached Military FF; i guess there are more to find. Eventually those nations can get a different bonus out of the FF? instead of another free stockade maybe 5 Soldiers or whatsoever?

Agreed. Many traits are not very balanced either. Chinese could start with a somehow smaller REF, or have have less frequent REF increases.

Russians could start with a master distiller, or start with a rum distillery. :D

7) RS System: Soldiers with 100% RS and being flagged as Rebels dont gain any fighting upgrades for being there. I think if we get away from the "town specific" RS we should give the fighting upgrades as well out of Town area.

Please explain this a bit. I am not getting this.

8) RS System: WT and Trade Goods really shouldnt have an own RS imo. WT is discussable once the bug with the newly created Units is fixed but Trade goods duh...

I think Dale said somewhere that WTs represent a group of people, and were usually run by colonial goverment. Hence, I understand where is he coming from.

For goods, I've reported this on the other forum and Dale agreed. Pretty sure it's one of the first issues to get fixed. RS of colonists born and educated will also get fixed.

9) RS System: Especially on Large Empires it gets REALLY messy if you press F3 and check your GRS or the REF. If the Comp is a little bit older (2 years) i can go drink a coffee while this loads up. Not sure what exactly happends there if its calculating something real big or if its just the massive ammount of the Single Units which it needs to show. Especially on larger Empires or in the Endgame the whole screen doesnt really provide any usefull Information cause the Units clutter up in front all over the Bar no chance to really see which unit is standing where. Maybe instead of showing each Unit show 1 Unit each Profession each state? as in 1 ES being Tory 1 ES being Rebel 1 ES being arround 50% and on mouseover state how many Units there are..?

The answer is simple. 3D unit animations have to be replaced with the 2D ones for the purposes of RS. This is not a very hard change, even I may be able to do it. :lol:

But again, this is not my mod. Dale can decide. :)

11) Game System: Playing Chinese is like 30 Towns named "New xyz" kinda annoying to get those sorted somehow or even remember which is which...

Well, perhaps we can replace the word new with the chinese version of it for some...

12) REF Size: Seems like with the latest Patch there is a Problem with REF Size again. 15 Towns each producing 24 Bells each Turn sum up to 360 Bells each Turn. Every 10 or so Turns King adds 40+ Units to the REF. these 15 Towns have a chance to each rise RS of Units arround 1-4% each Turn. Hence i probable need to have this going up for arround 50 Turns resulting in a REF increase of 200+ Units...

Yes, it's pretty important. The cap has to come back.

Fortunately or unfortuantely, you have also to change bell startegy. With the new system the sentiment of 100 colonists can rise as fast as 3 colonists.

Hence, producing bells in many cities will only count against you. Employing the startegy I've mentioned to you will result in a tiny REF even for a large empire.

My suggestion is REF increases should be governed by rebel population. So for every 10 extra rebels, King could decide to add 1-5 units on REF based on difficulty.

This will free bell production from REF once and for all, also it will make cap irrelevant, since REF can always keep track with any population.

Wish List:

1) On DoI in Col 1 you could get Help from another Nation if you produced enough Bells. Would be real Fun to see that again.

That would be really nice. Jenks said this is what Benjamin does at the end of the tech tree. I agree with you though. There is also this issue of what to do with all those wasted PPs in the end...
 
When it comes to the traits, I have found them extremely easy to mod and I have done quite a bit myself to personalize my AoDII. Here's some of what I did(Used for ideas?)

The Russian Expansive trait(which increases travel time to Europe and reduces tax rate) seemed horrendously underpowered, so I added a +1 LB to the town hall. This allows early border expansion and slight RS bonuses if going for DoI later, so I think it balances out well.

The Russian Protective trait was changed from granting a free stockade, so simply granting +25% defense bonuses in all settlements, in addition to granting a Minuiteman I promotion to gunpower units. This way it still gives 50% defense like the stockade, without actually giving a stockade. In addition, if the city is captured the defense bonus vanishes, making it easier to recapture.

The Russian Aggressive trait was changed to grant Combat I to all units(including naval units). I'm contemplating adding in Grenadier I as well.

The Industrious trait I changed from +25% :hammers: on everything, to all buildings needing 25% :hammers: less. Ships, cannons, and more importantly FF points have normal production rate.
 
@Prince: what i meant with the Soldiers is that they dont receive an attack bonus when attacking anymore. in earlier versions if you attacked from own town/territory you got up to 50% attack bonus for doing so. currently it seems this is gone with the new RS.i attacked a native settlement right next to my town and the unit had 100% RS but didnt gain any Rebel bonus.

i disagree with the statement with the 3 ES. even if its working right now i dont think it should work that way. and i am not quite sure but i dont dont think that 100 FCs being worked on by 3 ES gain the same RS at same speed at least it feels different for me especially when i have alot of soldiers in 1 town its way slower than to spread em to 10 different towns with all 3 ES. theoretically you might be correct practically i often see RS rises from 0% to nearly 50% in one turn when every other unit in the square has the 100% allrdy. imo its more like that way that when you produce say 60 bells and 10 colonists there at 0% each has a 1% RS rise chance. when there is 1 colonist at 0% and you produce 60 bells that col has a chance to rise by 1% 10 times each turn summarizing to max gain of 10% per turn.

maybe Dale corrects me if i am wrong thats just my observings of the game mechanics at the moment.

Another funny thing is that there is an undocumented feature with 1.08. Not sure if its suppossed to be or just accidently slipped in but VS are now trainable by College.

Regards
 
Hey Manu,

1. They get the rebel bonus only against the King.

2. Yup, 100 FCs become rebels in the same speed whether you have 3, or 100 Elder Statesmen. Max speed is 3ES in one town, if you split them in many towns won't help.

I was also not fond of this change, and said my opinion publically at Apolyton (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184335). Unfortunately, I had no other support. So, I suppose the whole thing has closed now.

Dale's explanation was one or a hundred FCs will have the same chances to get affected by a speach an ES gives.

Of course, 100 ES would give more speeches, newspapers may get shipped to other towns, produce a larger scale work towards independence etc...

This is though, not my mod and I am happy to follow Dale's idea. ;)

So, all I am trying to say having more than three elder statesmen only works against you - providing you kill all Europeans. In case you want more PPs, crank them up from a lumber mill.

If you still want to go the route of many ES with a large empire style, go navy... :)

3. VS are trainable since official patch got released. ;)
 
actually what you say is wrong prince.
what i stated from the practical point of view stays in place.
Your Statement:
Every colonist gains a random (%) of RS, which is not related with how many colonists a city has, but determined by LRS.
Dales Reply:
Not correct at all. CRS is determined by bell production and King actions. It has nothing to do with existing LRS.

Later on he tells the reference of the 100 colonists but...
Big but:
if i have as i stated 10 colonists in 1 town each gaining 1% RS per turn i need 100 turns to get those 10 colonists at 100%
if i now have 1 colonist in 10 different towns and they not gain 1% each but 10% each cause of the overproduction of the bells in those towns i need 10 turns for those 10 colonists to be 100%
in this example i ignored the CHANCE to rise RS as it basically doesnt really stop the point.

to stay with Dales example of the 1 and 100 colonists:
ES makes a speech to 100 colonists each makes up their mind and each has a chance to rise
ES makes several speeches to 1 colonist as he only has 1 to speech to he makes actually several speeches per turn the 1 colonist has several chances to rise RS.

basically i think its the second way how it works. this is determined by the simple facts of gameplay as i often have RAPID RS increases when the town is at 100% and there comes 1 new unit with 0% RS to the town. often its like 2-3 turns later that the new unit is made 100%
whereafter when i bring not 1 fresh but 10 units it seems that the RS gain is spreaded towards those 10 units rather than at same speed than when i bring 1 unit.

so either there is something seriously bugged or this thing is suppossed to work from practical side of view.
if you want go try it. use the world builder make several towns and look yourself what happends with RS if you place 1 or 10 colonist on Town square and wait a few turns in my games the single col ever gained faster RS than the 10..
if i am completely wrong i hope dale could correct...
i just dont know any other reason or explanation anymore why my units gain arround 20-50% RS in a single turn on marathon speed

regards
 
Manu,

Every colonist gains a random (%) of RS, which is not related to how many colonists a city has, but determined by LBP.

It was a typo. I didn't want to bring it up, since it would have no point. My points were clear. So Dale's answer was.

For the record, I've also supported the second way.

But going back to what I said 100 years ago, and making again the same convo, only to read same Dale's reply again, won't help. I think we had a chance, and you were not there - or prefered to ignore.

As I said numerous times, this is Dale's mod. Not ours._ :)
 
Every colonist has a chance to rise 1% for every 6 bells generated. At present this amount isn't adjusted for gamespeed, but it will be for 1.09. :)

So if you are generating 60 bells, every colonist has a chance to rise between 0-9% (since random(10) is 0-9 not 1-10).
 
That was the aim. :)
 
I wonder what happens to 0-5 bell generation?

Would it ever trigger any RS increase?

Would it have a 0.8% chance of increase, or would it automatically round up towards 0%?
 
still cant explain the odd behaviour than but well i guess i will look into it in 1.09
tho however this stricted 1% 6 bells thing makes me wonder as prince suggested what happends with other numbers? as in my 3 ES produce 18 bells i have a newspaper make it 36 i got a church and a textile mill through FF that 39.. now my town prosduces 39 bells which translates into...?
6x6 = 36 + 3 Bells....

for the REF those bells are produced and count toward the REF number.. for the RS those bells will be produced and counted as 0,x% or wasted? especially with FFs and/or not ES in TH there seems to be an enourmus potential of "wasted" bells for RS which do count toward REF....

regards
 
Manu,

You are right. I think the remains of multiples of 6 get wasted.

But when REF cap will work again, the impact won't be noticeable (at least would be playable and enjoyable!)... So, I think that is v1.09. ;)

I strongly believe though, REF increases should be governed by rebel population instead of bell production. In this case not even REF cap will be necessary, and we can produce as many bells as we like. Joy for large empires! :D
 
its not just that seriously...
if you consider the multiplies of 6 and consider you start putting untrained ppl into TH you realize soon that its a complete waste. 2 untrained seems fine 1 untrained wasted 3 untrained wasted.
untrained with PP wastes bells
only with newspaper it becomes acceptable to put untrained into TH generally speaking. thats not even considering traits/FF.

kinda annoying situation basically since you got to either do only ES or wait with bell production or delay it a tad till newspaper..
this goes on and on with rise in RS etc. there are so many factors which end up in unround numbers of multipliers of 6 that its annoying.
dunno maybe possible that these extra bells will be "stored" and go out once 6 bells are stored? as in turn 1 2 wasted bells stored turn 2 3 wasted bells stored and in turn 3 4 more wasted bells come to the storage ending in a dropout of 6 and keeping 3 bells in it...

well i guess now as i know it...
 
I was trying these combos last night... :D

3ES, or 2 untrained increase RS... but again, if you have other bonuses 1 untrained can also increase RS.

I've also tried the new playstyle. Huge empire with only 3ES. It works! Only have one "enlightment" town with 30 units waiting out of it. Nothing else produces bells. My enlightment town has all the end tree buildings (all factories, ironworks and arsenal)and gets a massive bonus from bells. Then I use this to convert all my population in about 20 turns. Then spread it throughout my empire. :D

RS is 51% and rising, REF is tiny, patriot level.
 
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