Pre-TLKNES: Bella Epoque

talonschild said:

I don't know when Sweden would take the peninsula from Russia, though. I see a couple options: first, a crazy post-Napoleonic Wars settlement where Sweden is compensated for Danish gains in the south with Russian territory in the north, but I'm not sure I like that.

The second option is what I'm tentatively calling the No Really, I'm Totally Swedish War, where the Bernadottes lead Sweden into a war with Russia for some reason - maybe to unite the nation against an external enemy to paper over instability? The land that they capture, rather than the old possessions in southern Finland, suggest an interest in the Arctic Ocean, perhaps with an eye to using Murmansk as a naval base unimpeded by a Danish Skagerrak (though, of course, its sheer latitude presents its own set of problems).

Click to expand...

Yeah, I haven't a clue either The latter makes more sense in my opinion.

Finland was part of Sweden until 1809. Sweden didn't conquer north Finland here - Russia conquered the south.

Gustav Adof's Finnish war probably went about the same on the Finnish front, resulting in the loss of almost all of Finland.

Assuming that I am China, the history should be like in RL: There is Taiping Rebellion, rebellions in Xinjiang by the Uighurs and European Imperialism and Opium. The current Emperor is Guangxu. The only thing that I would like to change from RL history, is that Guangxu really controls the nation and he is not a puppet of Dowager Empress.

I'm trying to figure out why Prince Carl Johan would go to war with Russia. I speculated about papering over instability, maybe because of the failure of the Swedish-Norwegian War. He was quite popular IRL, but that failure might change that.

Supposing Sweden outright switched sides after the general failure of the Norwegian conquest? Certainly, Carl Johan was not averse to switching sides, and he'd worked with Napoleon et al. before. This would mean aligning with Denmark and against Russia. Perhaps the Kola peninsula was captured then, as taking southern Finland would have brought the Swedish armies much, much closer to St Petersburg and so, Russian armies. Essentially, taking territory up north would play hell with Russian supply lines as much as with Swedish ones, and if we assume that Swedish soldiers were of generally better quality than their Russian counterparts (which is a complete shot in the dark here) it could be assumed that Sweden could face down what Russians could be sent north.

The previous speculation about naval bases still applies given the absence of important Norwegian ports west of the Skagerrak.

Still, I doubt Sweden could take on Russia alone, so it would have to be during the alt-War of the Sixth Coalition, which needs a new catalyst.


In other news, would it be possible to update the list of claimed countries on the first page of this thread to bring it in line with the other one?

The Finnish War predates Bernadotte by a good few years (Bernadotte coming to power is a direct result of the defeat).

The Finnish war was in 1809ish, and was a really bad loss for the Swedes mostly because Gustav IV massively underestimated the Russians and assumed nobody would be able to fight in winter. The end settlement resulted in Gustav IV Adolf being deposed in favour of the childless Karl XIII, and then the Swedes nominated Marshall Bernadotte as heir, after which he was crowned Karl XIV Johan.

Again, Sweden lost this war historically and the Russians took most of Finland.

Presumeably, Sweden under Bernadotte either sided with the English as historically but didn't lose much or just stayed out of it, the result being that Denmark still has Norway and is significantly more powerful.

Which still requires another Russo-Swedish War for the capture of the Kola.

El Salvador for me.

EDIT2: WHY? Why El Salvador?

TLK,

Can you go on #nes soon? my questions should take 5-7 minutes.

EDIT: I guess not.

Lets try to schedule another time more appropriate to your schedule.

I'd like to join as Transvaal

Edit: whoops, did not notice last post date and fact it had started..

You can still join even if its started!

This is pretty cool Its written from a US-centric point of view but talks about pre-dreadnaught battleships and makes for interesting reading.