New NESes, ideas, development, etc

EQandcivfanatic said:
i don't take it you are Skilord, not yet anyways, if you are your style of writing has changed to some extent. I will wait and see, and if you get on AIM, then we know for sure if this is the Second Coming of Skilord.

For all we know you are a clever con artist. After all ancient NES lore states that before the coming their will be false prophets.

Well, I didn't want to use this tag because there are simply too many implications with it 'is Absolution coming back' 'are you finishing Erwachte' (probably not, definately not) all of that nonsense. Also, the SKILORD tag was something I came up with in middle school. I needed to move to something more mature and fitting.

Something more mature happens to be EffingPrancer.

So, since my writing is too out of practice to be up to my old style, I will simply get on this tag and proclaim that the second coming is in fact to be found in Prancer.
 
*sigh* you could have pmed thunderfall and became effingskilord ;)

nice to see you back, either way.
 
Hey hey, good to have you back SKILORD, EQ was saying yesterday you were the only other NESer to have been away for so long, so it's cool to see you on here.

Lol my style has changed a bit too, my stories definitely, now if I can just get over writer's block I'll be able to post one. Looking forward to reading yours.

What's this time idea in das's NES? Off to read it now; sounds interesting.

UKNemesis
 
On the whole Future Modern NES thing,I was thinking it could be like das ITNES with Boring Times and Interesting times.Or for the FM NES Research&Strategic Times(where most hi-tech research would take place) and Real-Time Times.
 
This one's for you EQ

;)

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I have the starting ideas for a future NES but I doubt I would moderate it as I don't really have the time (what, with a pro Halo 2 clan) and I still need to work on the Battle system... a lot. And I might add some interesting rule stuff, right now the rules are a little bland, I hesitate to say 'this is public domain now' because I don't want someone taking it who won't do it right, but I don't especially want to do it, but think this would be a good idea.

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Prancer's idea of a Future NES

The Terran Empire met the Ghoul with a mix of terror and hope; they represented the first extra-terrestrial life that they had encountered, a race nearly as advanced as themselves, and perhaps even more aggressive. War held off for years until the beginning of a conflict so great it ultimately destroyed both races capacity for space travel, and reduced the universe to scattered populated planets.

Among those planets was Epsilon Sancti, Sancti was one of the last planets reached by the races, and the site of several of the most spectacular land battles.

As the war ended the ships that had brought the Terran and Ghoul soldiers were recalled to fight their own battles as ships ran low, and never returned. That was over a thousand years ago.

In the last thousand years the population has grown, to frightening levels, and the planet populated by opposing armies has finally submitted to a unified, if Terran dominated, central government.

At long last space travel has been rediscovered, and in the midst of this population crisis several corporations are preparing to leap on the opportunity to populate on the nineteen habitable planets within the solar system.

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Money

To start your colony your investors have trusted you with 70 thousand credits, and its possible to get more by asking the Council for a commission (described later), and once you establish your colony the opening (or pirating) of trade routes will begin to build capital. Exports of manufactured goods or of raw materials will make you money, how much depends on what the importer pays you, and imports will cost you money. (Epsilon Sancti is always open to importing goods, if you’re worried about other poor planets not wanting to buy.) You can pirate these trade routes, but how much you get out of it depends on the force you send, the force defending and how much the route was making. You can get both goods and money through piracy, although it is risky and probably prone to make you unpopular.

Commissions

The Council is likely to deny commissions when they don’t fall in line with their goals, but if you do fall in line with their goals they’ll be more than willing to drop another hundred thousand credits to help you get going, of course if you take the money it isn’t free. You give up all ability to have a space fleet outside of armed cargo ships and armed space stations, and will be protected by the Council’s own navy (which will probably not be instantaneously at your planet in the event of a problem), and have to keep ground forces down to medium size, hiring mercenaries is a violation of the commission, and all of your external actions are subject to the supervision of the council (they might deny you the right to trade with people they don’t approve of). In return you get the hundred thousand credits and free access, to a very large and well established space navy.

Population

Let’s face it, you’re trying to build an empire here, and you can’t do that without a lot of people, and getting the people to your planet is the point of your whole financial endeavor to start with. The population of each planet will be shown, and what, you might ask, does population matter? Population puts a limit on things you can do, if you have a civilian population of 10 thousand on your planet then you’re probably going to be buying mercenaries if you want an army. Your army cannot exceed the total population of your planet. Also there are things that will need a certain workforce to build. You aren’t going to be building massive structures with only 10 thousand workers on the entire planet. Required population is per building, if you have 60 thousand people on your planet you can build one arms factory, but not two.

Reputation

As your colony grows people might start moving there on their own ships and happily adding to your nation, however what sort of people and how many is affected a lot by your reputation. Are you known as a warlike Ghoul pirate colony wholly against the Council of Sancti, or are you a peaceful Commisioned Planet with good trade relations?


Stuff you Buy with Money

Let’s make a list. Or two.

Ships and Army

Small passenger/cargo ship – (1,000 passenger/unit capacity) – 1 thousand credits
Medium passenger/cargo ship (5,000 passenger/unit capacity) – 5 thousand credits
Large passenger/cargo ship (25,000 passenger/unit capacity) – 20 thousand credits

Military upgrade to cargo ships (halves storage space) (gives them the ability to defend themselves) – 6 thousand credits

Skirmisher Wing (Small fighters) – 6 thousand credits (Short Range)
Cruiser (Medium Ship) – 15 thousand credits (Can carry 4 Skirmisher Wings)
BattleShip (Large Ship) – 30 thousand credits (Can carry 10 Skirmisher Wings)
Bomber Ship (Single powerful bomber ship capable of attacking ground and space targets) – 15 thousand credits

Army Size Upgrade (make your army bigger) – 10 thousand, and another 10 thousand each 50,000. (None to 50k – 10k, 50,000 to 100,000 – 20k)

Army Tech Upgrade (Add technologies that you have obtained to your army) – 7 thousand per 50,000.

Army training upgrade (Teach the troops) – 5 thousand per 50,000

Army Upkeep (If you don’t upkeep your army it will start to get smaller when people quit) – 2 thousand per level.

Mercenaries (No upkeep) – 20 thousand a level.

Space Stations (Maybe you don’t want a planet, you can just have people live here, maybe you just want to set a couple up outside of your planet) – 40 thousand credits. (Can hold 900,000 people, or in other words, more than you’ll be able to get)

Space Station Military Upgrade – 5 thousand credits

Buildings

Mining Facility (req. pop. 5k) Allows you to mine natural resources to sell or to use to build manufactured goods. Makes 20,000 units a turn. 10 thousand credits.

Food Fabrication Plant (No pop. req.) Allows the fabrication of foods, something that will help your population grow. 5 thousand credits.

Farm (req. pop. 20k) Naturally grown foods are considered a delicacy, and if you’re trying to break into the luxury trade here’s a good place to start. 15 thousand credits.

Arms factory (req. pop. 60k) (Requires 15,000 natural resources a turn) So, you want to become an arms dealer, or maybe you just want to make sure your army isn’t using the Council’s guns. Makes 25,000 units a turn. 20 thousand credits.

Goods Factory (req. pop. 40k) (Requires 10,000 natural resources a turn) Make stuff that isn’t intended to kill people. Makes 25,000 units a turn. 20 thousand credits.

V The 'Attrition' method of battle calculations might not be popular or even good. I've never been good with battle calculation stuff.

Spoiler :
Battle Calculations

Battle Calculations have always been a weak point in NESes I have invented, this one will turn that around as it is willing to accept the idea of numbers for a change, with little further ado I want to introduce you to the ‘Attrition’ method of calculating battles.. There are several factors involved, battle ability, raw size of the force, and speed as far as numbers are concerned, and then strategies. Battle ability is a number used to define how well the ship fights on its own, the moderator rolls a six sided dice and adds the battle ability to that number, in the case of a tie the higher speed wins, and that works for 1v1 space fights, but then there shouldn’t be too many of those, and then there’s bombardment and so forth. Let me put up the stats first.

Any unarmed cargo ship: B.A. – 1
Armed small cargo ship: B.A. – 3 Speed – 20
Armed medium cargo ship: B.A. – 5 Speed – 15
Armed large cargo ship: B.A. – 7 Speed – 10
Skirmisher Wing: B.A. – 5 Speed – 35
Cruiser – B.A. – 10 Speed – 20
BattleShip: B.A. – 12 Speed – 5
Bomber: B.A. – 3 Speed – 5
Armed Station: B.A. – 15 Speed – 1 (Consider it immobile)


Let’s take an example a particularly large space fight, now in this case neither player has told the moderator to retreat their forces if things start to look bad, so it’s a fight to the finish.

A group of pirates attacks a convoy of armed trade ships and their escorts, why not, its lucrative enough if they win. The pirates have sent a Battleship, with 7 skirmisher wings, and 4 Cruiser’s. On the defense there are 3 large armed cargo ships, a pair of skirmisher wings, 5 Cruisers and three bombers. If there were strategies given to me I would asses them and give them a certain numerical value to add to the dice roll, but there aren’t. The bombers start by bombarding, there are three of them and let’s say that they all focus on the battleship, I roll three dice, and get a 1, a 3 and a 4. This means damage to the Battleship, in fact it means eight damage to the battleship and to represent that we take away eight of its B.A. points. Just with the inclusion of the bombers, who would get crushed in straight up combat the convoy turned the Pirate’s ace in the hole into a tub with 4 B.A. Then there’s the actual fighting. Without strategies I will just do class to class fighting, for instance, the skirmishers fight their bit, 7 on 2, I roll the dice for the two and let’s say I get a six for each of them, that’s eleven damage that they each do, but let’s say that everyone in the opposing army rolled a three, dealing out eight damage apiece, and taking as much damage, the pirates lost two wings and have 1 wounded wing, and the convoy’s wings are done. The Cruisers and the large cargo ships (all cargo ships are in the cruiser’s class) then do battle and since there’s noone in its class the Battleship joins in. The battleship rolls a six, dealing out ten damage from its wounded guns, and the pirate Cruisers roll 3,4,6, and 2. The convoy’s cruiser’s roll 1,2,4,5,4 and the armed vessels roll 3,3,5. The Battleship can take/will do 10 damage, the pirate Cruisers can take/will do between 13 and 16 damage, the convoy’s cruisers can take/will do between 11 and 15 damage and the vessels can take/will do 10-12 damage. Add together the total damage done by each fleet. The Pirates did/can take 69 damage, and the convoy did/can take 95. Subtract that and you get 26, which means that you take ships whose BattleAbility adds up to 26, starting with the vessels that the convoy was supposed to be protecting. They add up to 24 and then you get that extra 10 one, which we will include, but as severely wounded. Post-Battle Wounds (not bombarding) will be taken into account by subtracting 5 from all future fights until the ship gets into port, if the ship makes it that far, but for any more fighting in this battle the B.A. of this wounded ship will be considered 2 (the amount left over past the 2 whole ships). There are still 5 Skirmisher wings out there though, and they target the remaining defenders first, the 3 bombers. Bombers provide a free first shot and are useful, but not good fighters on their own. All three bombers roll 3s, six damage apiece, the five skirmishers roll 1,2,3,3,1 which added with five fives makes 35, minus 5 from the wounded makes 30, destroying the bombers at the cost of 18 damage done by the bombers, leaving two skirmishers in place to take on the vessels. The skirmishers roll a 3 and a 6, dealing out 19 damage, the armed ships roll a 4,3, and 1, with a total of 24 being dealt out. It ends up that one ship survives this entire battle, and that ship only has 5 B.A. left.
 
Now i am working on a new conspiracy theory stating that you and uknemesis are the one and the same person.

No, there's clearly four different people there.

Either way, it would seem that the First Generation is returning en masse. We probably need sealman here too, and some others. But anyway, good ideas everyone, I was thinking of something like the Battle Phase you suggested UK. Actually, Stormbringer's first NES was quite good in that he had something like a "major update" (once a week I think, mostly non-military, don't remember it too clearly) and minor updates for wars. I suspect that was why that Anglo-Boer War I fought with Panda and Gelion was one of the best ones ever.

It worked like this - everybody sends in, for a major update, the domestic orders and military orders. When the mod gets military orders from both sides in a conflict, he makes a minor update reporting on the military action. Military orders again, a new update, and so forth. Worked well, which is why I hope SB will one day re-start that NES.
 
Okay, as I'm back from my trip, I have lots of ideas.

1. Firstly, how about a Cold War NES (see Gelion's/Capulet's/SB's. That's one NES, ONE.)... in a world without nukes (that is, not only the weapons but also the reactors, etc, etc). This probably means that Korea is united and communist (Americans still knock out Japan, but by then USSR has enough tiem to finish off the Japanese in South Korea), which is interesting enough a twist, but also much more importantly there is difference in science, society - and politics. In OTL, the nuclear weapons were what prevented WWIII IMHO. Without nuclear weapons, its likely that generally the world will be less peaceful. Without the risk of utter destruction, people-in-charge are much less cautious and thus there will be much more wars, not just limited ones but also huge, all-out wars. It also has the added benefit of the NES not dying from nuclear destruction like two of mine did. Now they'll die from bio-engineered plagues...

2. Okay, some book-based ideas for NESes could work fine IMHO. For instance, not too long ago I've read this really interesting althist book (Russian, not sure if it was or will be ever translated) "The Cross on the Tower". Basically, Germany wins WWI, then in late 1940s WWII begins, Germany and USA (and then some more) make some gains against Russia-Britain-France-Japan (notably the Germans overrun France) but after that the war stalemates. Evidently there are no nukes, so both sides bleed each other white to no avail, until finally something breaks. Embittered, bombarded Britain is the first to fall, as the crew of the Birmingham mutinies. Either way, long story cut short, soon enough the Worldwide Socialist Revolution begins. Not only "international-socialists" are rebelling, though - there are also various separatists, opportunists, etc. Generally the NES starts out with all nations with low economy, confidence, etc, before the revolts, and the players could take various rebel groups of their own design - from the Russian wing of the socialist revolution through the Texan separatist rebellion to elements of the German military and occupation authorities as the "Duchy of Burgundy". An all-out rebel NES, basically. Another possibility is like EQ's memorable if short-lived "Warlords of North America" (or what was it named?) NES, with people playing as whatever they want, including the "loyalist" (even if there's no government left) army detachments as well as warlords, separatists and socialists, and salvaging old weaponry, fighting for cities, forming temporary alliances... anyhow, IMHO its an interesting setting.

3. "The Difference Engine" (co-authored by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling) world is also interesting, if only due to the different technology. Not particularily out-standing, but IMHO its worth a NES.

4. A short story in a Russian short story collection which is even less likely to be translated, "The Lonesome Warrior", well, its not particularily out-standing neither, and the idea is not entirely new, but is also worth a NES. Basically, instead of human-dominated Earth, Earth is dominated by sentient animals of seven (eight? nine?) species. They have reached the "VIII BC technology level" and are building primitive empires, uniting into tribes and beginning to conflict over territory... Either way, as said, its worth a NES, I could post a more detaield setting based on the story if you want.
 
1. Poor stalin :(. But it is still a very good idea, which would make modern day NES way more interesting.

2. IMHO, too! And we would get some interesting borders too. Not allways the same boring ones.

3. Most likely...

4. Sounds strange at first, but also interesting :D. However, will the animal races real ones, or will they be "humanoidly evolved" (you know what i mean)? Because Dromedarys with spears and shields...
 
1. Well, my point exactly. It'll get a completely different feel, without WMDs, and even if they do come up with some bio-engineered plague (hint hint, GM - but yours just wrecked economy and population horribly, even if the NES died as if from a nuclear holoucast just after), well, its different.

2. Well, yes. Actually, after the initial chaos is over, i.e. after some major groups gain some sort of control over their respective regions, it gets especially interesting with the world. Actually it also has some elements of a fresh-start - take a rebel group of your choice and in the chaos and anarchy forge your own nation.

3. Well, yes. As said, not particularily-outstanding.

4. Well, I understand, and am rather uncertain... According to the story itself, just real animal races, possibly larger in size.

Btw, wasn't there some interesting site about an althist with sentient (non-humanoid, just sentient) wolves? Just googled - the PoD is about the last ice age, and here it is:
http://www.wolfram.demon.co.uk/ah_wolfworld.html. Worth a look, along with the other althists there.
 
The wolf althist is indead very interesting to read. Especially as I like wolves very much :).
 
It'd make an interesting NES as well.

The problem with that is finding mods.
 
Okay, any other comments? Anybody wants to mod a NES based on either of those ideas? I could HELP with the development, if you want.
 
I think those are excellent ideas for NES's. I'd be willing to mod a NES, as I have more than enough time, but feel I'm not experienced or established enough to do this.
 
Well, do remember that all mods started somewhere. So you don't really know if you could mod or not yet until you try.
 
One more book-based idea I wanted to post but forgot to, based on the works of the Strugatsky Brothers, especially "Hard To Be God."

It takes place on a different planet with human population still in the Middle Ages. "Progressors" - space travellers from an united, utopian Earth who are trying to influence local history in an effort to speed up progress, ever-so-slowly - are present in this world, they are engaging in various local intrigues, infiltrating positions of power in various states, but cannot openly interfere out of fear that it will disturb the progress of history on the said planet. However, the locals - some of them at least - aren't as stupid as was thought. That causes problems occasionally. (Note that this is a very very brief and oversimplified description of the book.)

The idea that I have, however, isn't a carbon copy of the Strugatsky idea, but rather is loosely-similar. That is - there still is a different planet with human population, they are in the Middle Ages (not neccessarily, ofcourse, we can start them in Bronze Age if we want). All countries here are NPC, ofcourse, and they themselves can decide to make war, sign alliances, expand, and so forth. The players are playing various progressor organizations.

Yes, various. To make it more interesting there will be different progressor factions present. They can ally with each other or oppose each other, and they all have off-orbit space bases (and helicopter pads in local Antarctica...). For some plot deviced reason they can't actually attack each other's bases - maybe something about nuke-like deterrents, maybe some international agreement. Each faction has agents that could infiltrate positions of influence, or even come to power in the various countries, tribes, etc. Those agents have to be equipped and trained, also special devices could be used on local-scale to, for example, evacuate said agents or mind-control some of the locals (to make it harder, mind-control will be very temporary and expensive to prolong). All factions supposedly have some sort of agenda and thus should try and push towards it. For instance, one of them could send military advisors (not technologic, albeit its possible to assist in development of various technologies) to back the Krebean Reich in its bid for unification of the Beran Sub-continent - but another faction, whose plans will be threatenedby the unification of the said sub-continent, could try to send assassins to kill of the enemy advisors and visionary Krebean leaders, or their own adviasors to reinforce Krebean enemies. Basically, its something of a war of espionage organizations, and I know lots of NESers, myself included, who revel in such activity more then in the conventional (domestic and military) orders. Sabotage, incitement of rebellion/war, etc - its all there. The idea needs lots of development, I know, but IMHO its worth it.

Confusing?
 
No! And I love it and you should mod it :p

Serioulsy I had something close to this idea as well - different races (factions) influence local Empires and play them so that eventually a planet unites and enters the Galactical Confederation of some sort. Obviously there are different factions struggling for power: greedy corporations, humanitarian missions, scientists, "naturalists" fighting for preservation of local cultures and so on.
Ironically some scientists think that some nice people played with our dear Earth 4000 years ago. Where they are we do no know, but they left memeories on the planet as gods, prophets and enlighteners.
You could play gods, give locals guns and set them against each other, organise schools - play development. To make things intereting the local tribe could be humanoid, NOT human...
 
Thank you, thank you. :p Yes, that's what I meant. I for some reason also suspect that Cleric will be very interested with that idea. But what about the other ideas?
Where they are we do no know, but they left memeories on the planet as gods, prophets and enlighteners.

And according to one theory they described to the ancient Sumerians in perfect detail the surfaces of solar system planets. Probably just to make a point.
 
you should mod it

Problem - I'm busy modding a NES designed to span well into 21st century. :p
 
Well I am glad we have the same interests :).... now we need to find the mod....
Still figuring out the other ideas...
 
Well, SB isn't doing anything useful... ;)
 
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