tesbs hero classes
- Thread starter tesb
- Start date
azzedar
Warlord
one of the promos could also give/improve a slight bonus in collateral damage.
I'm sorry but these are way to strong for me. Make this optional if you include it.
Given how the AI works the warden one willl autokill huge armies. Warden is no doubt the best. I would not use him to defend cities. I would use him to defend stacks. If you have one of them in a stack the stack can't be killed.
Given how the AI works the warden one willl autokill huge armies. Warden is no doubt the best. I would not use him to defend cities. I would use him to defend stacks. If you have one of them in a stack the stack can't be killed.
Lemminkäinen
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2008
- Messages
- 111
Agreed - Warden is completely bonkers.
The idea for all of these is awesome, but the power level is too great IMO. That high level heroes are already incredibly powerful - I don't feel the need to make them this much more powerful.
i totally agree with you guys i will post the update today. they will receive quite some nerfs across the board. it was just the general idea that i wanted to get out, i apparently put next to no thought into balance 
edit: that is what happens if you spine crawler push directly into broodlords... you loose your mind
edit 2: updated the op with the changes:
adrenaline rush changed, dread master weakened; blade master weakened; dizzying speed weakened; warden weakened; eternal defender weakened.
if you still feel they are overpowered or need changes feel free to post them, currently i like to change toughness a bit but i am unsure how.
i also emphasized more that each specialization step is mutually exclusive to other options
edit: that is what happens if you spine crawler push directly into broodlords... you loose your mind
edit 2: updated the op with the changes:
adrenaline rush changed, dread master weakened; blade master weakened; dizzying speed weakened; warden weakened; eternal defender weakened.
if you still feel they are overpowered or need changes feel free to post them, currently i like to change toughness a bit but i am unsure how.
i also emphasized more that each specialization step is mutually exclusive to other options
Just 2 quick things
1. +X% health after combat
For love of sirona, change this to something else. Currently computer will lose from tens to hundreds units versus one unit with cannibalize. I can't even imagine what bit buffer heron units with bigger effect would do . Or even worse ,i unit with both cannibalize and the eternal defender promotion both. For the bloodrage promotion it would be okay mayhap, they get -1Defensive anyway. But it would be even better if it would be offensive heal only, if that is doable.
2. Grigori
These guys get 10+ heroes or so each game, and these promos make them quite/somewhat more powerful. Will they completly dominate the world after this? i have no clue .
more detailed analysis after you post more stuff and i sober up.
Also , i fully support this ,i always felt that heroes in FFH//// were just not heroic or special enough. Yay for this.
1. +X% health after combat
For love of sirona, change this to something else. Currently computer will lose from tens to hundreds units versus one unit with cannibalize. I can't even imagine what bit buffer heron units with bigger effect would do . Or even worse ,i unit with both cannibalize and the eternal defender promotion both. For the bloodrage promotion it would be okay mayhap, they get -1Defensive anyway. But it would be even better if it would be offensive heal only, if that is doable.
2. Grigori
These guys get 10+ heroes or so each game, and these promos make them quite/somewhat more powerful. Will they completly dominate the world after this? i have no clue .
more detailed analysis after you post more stuff and i sober up.
Also , i fully support this ,i always felt that heroes in FFH//// were just not heroic or special enough. Yay for this.
@rabican
regarding 1)
i never had that health +x% after combat is that powerful (when it is 10% only), the warden basically becomes worthless in the offensive if he chooses eternal defender, so it is quite difficult to find the right amount of combat heal so he can still be beaten, yet does not become worthless. the current number might still be too high, i simply have to test this
offensive heal is not possible afaik.
regarding 2)
yes stronger grigori will be a side effect, but i already nerfed those promotions nearly down to regular promotion every unit can get. also keep in mind that you need at least heroic combat II or heroic defense II that means you need combat I to V and the two heroic promotions. that is 7 promotions before you can even pick a class, by that time your free exp will be mostly used up so you have to farm xp for your heroes if you want them all to specialize.
regarding 1)
i never had that health +x% after combat is that powerful (when it is 10% only), the warden basically becomes worthless in the offensive if he chooses eternal defender, so it is quite difficult to find the right amount of combat heal so he can still be beaten, yet does not become worthless. the current number might still be too high, i simply have to test this
offensive heal is not possible afaik.
regarding 2)
yes stronger grigori will be a side effect, but i already nerfed those promotions nearly down to regular promotion every unit can get. also keep in mind that you need at least heroic combat II or heroic defense II that means you need combat I to V and the two heroic promotions. that is 7 promotions before you can even pick a class, by that time your free exp will be mostly used up so you have to farm xp for your heroes if you want them all to specialize.
Regarding 1), I don't feel "one immortal guardian" is such a problem (in single player). Unless you're doing an OCC, you generally have lost if you're down to your last city anyway and if not, the Warden won't help you turn the tide. Maybe implement a way to prevent him from being moved around too much, like making some of his powers only available if he's fully fortified (5turns).
Also, I don't think "after combat" includes suffering magic/collateral damage, does it? So unless he's got a pretty high level and all the magic resistance you can find, it's still possible to beat him down with a few quick spells. Not sure if the AI can handle it though. I remember a game where the Elves attacked me with a stack of 70+ Priest of Leaves + tigers. Add in Valor and that would've been a free ticket to level one billion.
Also, I don't think "after combat" includes suffering magic/collateral damage, does it? So unless he's got a pretty high level and all the magic resistance you can find, it's still possible to beat him down with a few quick spells. Not sure if the AI can handle it though. I remember a game where the Elves attacked me with a stack of 70+ Priest of Leaves + tigers. Add in Valor and that would've been a free ticket to level one billion.
Tesb,
congrats... very cool stuff, nice and fine work!!!
Also very cool from you to be so open for constructive criticism. You've already done a lot of changes, so most of my arguments are already mentioned. But - warden weems still a bit OP. If some of these classes seem to be overpowered balance them maybe by negative sideeffects. For warden you could make him dependent on a city (maybe even the city where he was built) to have his special promos and abilities (for the lore: he was born in this city, raised and trained there and knows how to use the fortifications a. s. o.). So we can't use the warden to defend our attacking stacks.
Greez,
Tschuggi
congrats... very cool stuff, nice and fine work!!!
Also very cool from you to be so open for constructive criticism. You've already done a lot of changes, so most of my arguments are already mentioned. But - warden weems still a bit OP. If some of these classes seem to be overpowered balance them maybe by negative sideeffects. For warden you could make him dependent on a city (maybe even the city where he was built) to have his special promos and abilities (for the lore: he was born in this city, raised and trained there and knows how to use the fortifications a. s. o.). So we can't use the warden to defend our attacking stacks. Greez,
Tschuggi
it is not the warden himself, but rather his specialization who are overpowered i guess? what if just reduce the strength of those (like -1/-1 for eternal defender?)
the eternal defender is already pretty much worthless when it come to attacks, should i make such an attack penalty for the eternal guard as well?
the eternal defender is already pretty much worthless when it come to attacks, should i make such an attack penalty for the eternal guard as well?
Teb :
maybe have something one can do with the Drill line ?
One may not always want to upgrade a hero down the combat line.
There were incentives due to the heroic strength/defense, but if you add specialization, it will become mandatory to go don the combat line with the heros.
Maybe some Hero promotion on the drill line (like 2-3 promotions as one only has to go up Drill IV instead of Combat V) that can be prereq for specialization;
or have heroic attack/deff need combat I AND (combat V or Drill IV) Thus going the drill line would still allow for the heroic attack/def for the same amount of invested promotions than down the combat line (or make it CII + drillIV so that you need 1 more promo than the combat line as it is not the easiest way).
Might be the same for mounted units but with the withdrawing line ... but not as important IMO.
maybe have something one can do with the Drill line ?
One may not always want to upgrade a hero down the combat line.
There were incentives due to the heroic strength/defense, but if you add specialization, it will become mandatory to go don the combat line with the heros.
Maybe some Hero promotion on the drill line (like 2-3 promotions as one only has to go up Drill IV instead of Combat V) that can be prereq for specialization;
or have heroic attack/deff need combat I AND (combat V or Drill IV) Thus going the drill line would still allow for the heroic attack/def for the same amount of invested promotions than down the combat line (or make it CII + drillIV so that you need 1 more promo than the combat line as it is not the easiest way).
Might be the same for mounted units but with the withdrawing line ... but not as important IMO.
Tesb :
I proposed drill IV + combat I for HAI and HDI so same number of promotions for drill line or combat line.
as Drill V doesn't exist IIRC and specialisation at drill V or HAII/HDII makes it easier to attain specialisation from the drill line than from the combat line
I proposed drill IV + combat I for HAI and HDI so same number of promotions for drill line or combat line.
as Drill V doesn't exist IIRC and specialisation at drill V or HAII/HDII makes it easier to attain specialisation from the drill line than from the combat line
I love the idea. I agree with your stance on Withdrawl.
I like that you are taking suggestions. I would have to say I think 100% heal from combat from the defender too much. O think the 90% proposed is to much. I would think 50% or 40% to be incredibly powerful and would still chose the promotion if it was lowered to that.
I like that you are taking suggestions. I would have to say I think 100% heal from combat from the defender too much. O think the 90% proposed is to much. I would think 50% or 40% to be incredibly powerful and would still chose the promotion if it was lowered to that.
thus is the hazards of opening a thread but not reading it for a couple hours then replying with out refreshing lol...
If people think Enternal Defender is still too powerful you might consider adding to it a +3 movement poitns like the Heavy promo has. Making it so no matter what its top speed would be 1 slowing any stack they were with.
If people think Enternal Defender is still too powerful you might consider adding to it a +3 movement poitns like the Heavy promo has. Making it so no matter what its top speed would be 1 slowing any stack they were with.
