Expansion Civilizations

I agree that Poland would be a great addition. Didn't know how big Poland used to be before playing Europa Universalis.

While I know that there would be zero long term profits from doing so, but would it really be too hard to, instead of just giving them to us 8 at a time, give us a monster addition with 50+ civs on it? (I speak the following with admitted ignorance on the finer, heck basic, aspects of programming...) It seems to me that all you need for a civ is 1) a picture of the leader(s), and what their traits and fave civic is, 2) a new unit added for their UU, 3) a list of city names? I'm sure I'm missing some other things, like a color for their borders, but maybe they could leave out the giant pile of scenarios that usually come with these things, set em up as free downloads maybe at the Civ4 site when you use a CD key from buying the expansion? If they could work that out, I'd glad pay $45 for more civs to choose from then I could throw a stack of scouts at!

Laurence72
Round 4: Eat brains

Laurence72 said:

While I know that there would be zero long term profits from doing so, but would it really be too hard to, instead of just giving them to us 8 at a time, give us a monster addition with 50+ civs on it?

Click to expand...

I expect that creating leaders is very expensive, perhaps several thousand USD each. They did a pretty good job with the modeling and animation, which takes lots of work--particularly for companies that dont have a lot of expertice in that area. One annoying thing thats missing in the leader dialog is ambient sound. But the scores are great--and thats another thing thats going to cost a lot.

If Firaxis were smart and agile (given this nonsense with Take2, I suspect they aren't), they'd get a small contract with someone cool like Pixar thats really good at this sort of stuff. Huge benefits to Civ, and significant benefits to Pixar, at a relatively small investment.

Definitely Armenians, for the following reasons:
1. Armenians are one of the most ancient people that survived (armenian leader Hayk has killed babelonian leader Bell in the battle for freedom).
2. Armenian king Tigran The Great (140 BC - 55 BC) (http://www.armenians.com/famous/Tigran/) conquested many countries in Near East taking title King of Kings.
3. Armenians are the first nation that officially accepted Christianity as a state religion (in 301 AD, before Roman empire did)
4. Armenians have founded their own alphabet in 405 AD. Ethiopians are currently using it.
5. Armenian Highland is on the crossroad of Eastern-Western civilizations and Southern-Northern civilizations. As a result Armenian Highland has always been the scene of wars (Persian-Roman, Russian-Persian, Turk-Russian, Arabian-Byzandian, etc.).
6. Armenians have survived genocide in ottoman empire (1915-1918) that was the first genocide in XX century (http://www.armenians.com/Genocide/index-main.html, http://www.armenocide.de/armenocide/armgende.nsf).
7. Armenians had (although very small) participation in World War I and II (as a part of Soviet Union).
8. Though current population of Armenia is about 3,000,000 they had several great cultural people (Aram Khachaturyan (http://www.armenians.com/famous/khachaturian.html), etc.)
9. Armenian musical instrument duduk is recognized as world non-material cultural inheritance by UNESCO.
10. History knows many armenian chessmasters (World champion Tigran Petrosyan, recent world chess cup winner Levon Aronyan, etc.)

Christ's sake, it's spelt Vietnam people, not Veitnam, wtf is Veitnam?

LevonH said:

3. Armenians are the first nation that officially accepted Christianity as a state religion (in 301 AD, before Roman empire did)
4. Armenians have founded their own alphabet in 405 AD.

Click to expand...

I seem to recall that, in part because of these two factors, Armenian is one of the oldest languages to have a really large body of very early literature that's still around. It's an attractive alphabet too.

What would you suggest for a Unique Unit?

Austria-Hungary
Poland
Czech Republic

i dont know much about acient vietnam civivilization. What have they done to deserve a place in the expansion?

I second that! I know they won't add Canada but if america is in the game then candaians have every right to be as well.

"More tears, more beers!" Deaner from the movie Fubar.

morikaweb said:

Anyways I dont have time to finish reading this thread so here are my pics:

1. Canada
2. Scot's
3. The Celts
4. Ottomans
5. Vikings

P.S I forgot to mention the 2 greatest achevments of Canada:
1. We litteraly invented hockey .
2. We have managed to put up with Amarica as a nebor for hundreds of years without lossing our sense of humor (check out The "Arrogant Worms" and you'll see what I mean)

Click to expand...

Just to let you know, Genghis Khan died in 1227, and the Mongols decided that they would attack Europe in the 1230s. They conquered Russia, Hungary, Poland, Austria, Germany, and everyone else in central and eastern europe, and were ready to attack western europe until the leader died...

(by the way, everything i write is fact. if you want, look it up in wikipedia or anywhere else thats credible on the net.)

Click to expand...

Wrong.

It was long decided that the Mongol Empire would not invade the rest of europe before Cheghis died.
one, There wasn't enough grazing ground in Central Europe to support the Mongol army who took there herds with them, and two, The Europeans were exceptionally dirty and the smell repelled the Mongol invaders.

kind of odd, the stink that saved Europe!

Also, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia if you told me to do so with a gun pointed at me.

And Sorry for the thread jacking...

Now, if I were to pick a civ I would have to say Carthage, Hannibal is one of my most favorite figure's from antiquity. The fact that he never lost a battle on Roman soil (with a rag tag army) is astonishing.

I'm always debating which civ to rename as the Carthaginians, based on traits/UU any suggestions until this mod pack comes out?

He-Who-Hunts said:

Now, if I were to pick a civ I would have to say Carthage, Hannibal is one of my most favorite figure's from antiquity. The fact that he never lost a battle on Roman soil (with a rag tag army) is astonishing.

I'm always debating which civ to rename as the Carthaginians, based on traits/UU any suggestions until this mod pack comes out?

Click to expand...

belive it or not, its a misconception that Hannibal had a rag tag army; he actually had the best military machine of the era, until the Romans were able to train thier own troops in the same are hannibal had sharpend his blades in- the wild lands of Spain- but when hannibal marched over the Alps, there is no question, the training of the carthaginian troops gave them the edge from the moment they crossed.

Hannibal had mercenaries from Spanish and Celtic tribes who preferred Glorifying themselves in battle over strict disciplined formations....

His military machine was only the greatest of its era because he himself turned it in to one.

that statment seems to put a bit more glory on hannibal then is due, and undeplays the fact that the Spanish were some of the best warriors of the time, with some of the best equipment of the day- though i dont much feel like a debate at the moment.

I limited myself to picking seven to make myself make real choices. I would like to see, in order of choice, the following:

1. Ethiopia
2. Sumeria
3. Carthage
4. Dutch
5. Minoans
6. Siam
7. Byzantines

New Leaders:
1. Cleopatra
2. Augustus Caesar

I'm sure the Spanish were good fighters, but the simple fact remains... armies made up of "individual warriors" much like the Spanish tribes, could never beat a tightly nit cohesive body of men much like the roman legion.

This is one of the things that gave the Legions an edge, they're formations were superior to any army prior.

Hannibal was able to manipulate the battlefield time and time again to his troops favor...
On one occasion he lured legion's into a swamp where they lost there tempo, once in chaos he sent in his Spanish infantry where they easily disposed of the formation exposed legions.

Are you telling me that if the Spanish were to meet the romans on equal footing they would win? because they wouldn't, the Romans rock hard battle lines would push them into disarray.

I think Stone Wall Jackson said it best:
"its discipline that wins the day"

and It was Hannibal who beat the Romans...

ok, ok, i'll stop now, sorry if i made anyone mad. im just gonna list my top choices for new civs, in no specific order. (i know, theres a lot of european, mediteranean, and middle east civs)

1. Carthage
2. Poland
3. Ottomans
4. Vikings or Scandinavia
5. Celts
6. Zulu
7. Mayans
8. Babylon
9. Byzantines
10. Sumeria
11. Ethiopia
12. Korea

as for Poland, theres a link to an atlas on aandred post on page 7, take a look at the map.

Meffy said:

I seem to recall that, in part because of these two factors, Armenian is one of the oldest languages to have a really large body of very early literature that's still around. It's an attractive alphabet too.

What would you suggest for a Unique Unit?

Click to expand...

I know that Fedayee has rather arabian roots than armenian (see section Armenia at http://www.answers.com/topic/fedayeen?hl=Armenia ) but Armenian Fedayees fought for survival of Armenian nation in Ottoman empire during 1915-1918. They won several battles agains turkish army at Sardarabad, Bash-Abaran and Zangezur. And after collapse of Soviet Union, when independent Armenian Republic had no army, it was Armenian Fedayees that fought (1988-1994) in Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia to protect armenians from Azeri army of vandals and murderers. In short, Armenian Fedayees (called Freedom Fighter or Azatamartik in Armenia) helped armenian nation greatly to survive and to win and it's their merit that now Republic of Armenia is strong and independent republic.

So, I suggest Azatamartik as UU for Armenian Civilization which is replacement of ordinary infantry. And the leader is Tigran The Great or Vardan Mamikonyan (http://www.armenians.com/famous/vartan-m.html) who was the first leader of Christian Armenians to take up arms in defending their right to worship in 451AD

The Phoenicians would be a nice addition..they were possibly if not probably the greatest sailors of the ancient era.

They founded cities which produced incredible feats of engineering (look up the city of "Baalbek" if your interested)...some of their cities included "Carthage" (so the Carthaginians as a single nation is a bit of a misnomer), "Syracuse" (not Greek or Roman), "Tyre" and "Sardis" (definitly not Persian as in CivIV).

They were the major early traders of the mediterranean, and the origin is to this day almost a complete mystery (anyone who says otherwise is best making an educated guess).

A welcome addition imho.

Why don't we add the "Filipino" people?

I know that the Philippines is now riddled with corruption and has become an unpopular and insignificant country. But if you check world history, we were once a proud and progressive nation long before the Spaniards colonized our country. We were known as brave warriors who repeatedly resisted foreign occupation.

Our leader could be Lapu-Lapu. FYI, he was the one who killed Ferdinand Magellan - in defiance of colonial rule.

Our special unit could be called "Katipunero". They were the ones who revolted against the oppressive Spanish colonial rule with mere machetes or "bolo" in local language. Special qualities would be Industrious and Creative.

Our country was a famous and important trading spot by China, India, all the way across the Pacific to the US. We played a significant role during WWII, by holding the Japanese invasion forces at bay until the bitter end - The Death March. We were the launch pad for the return of General Douglas McArthur in his bid to regain control in Southeast Asia. In most recent events, we gave birth to the concept of "People Power" - a bloodless revolution against a corrupt government.

Our nation is an archipelago, consisting of 7,107 islands. It is the only Roman Catholic country in Southeast Asia. Every foreign power that wished for global domination always sought control of our country because of its strategic location.

We are almost the same number of population with Germany (80+ million), with almost the same literacy rate. I'm sure that millions more will enjoy this game if the "Filipinos" are included.

So instead of adding great civs that we've all been accustomed to, why don't we go further southeast and add a real "global" touch into the game.