SGOTM 21 - The Shawshank Redemption

Athens: pre-windmill? or you want a mine for oxford?

Research
PPress will need some turns. Edu, we are planning a possible 2 bulb--slightly wasteful, no manual research til we know.
I'm not sure why you think our tech rate can cover education. We are making like 20 gpt at 0% research. We'd have to build a lot of wealth. We don't have much conquer gold coming.

Diplo, bribe Louis to stop trade w/Mao
... why not the other way around? Mao won't do it? Or are we trying to have less -diplo with Louis so we can re-open borders?

Is the Liz plan still to CF after London and gift Maasr? then take Nottinham? Or maybe she will settle the desert. We might want that new desert city and still leave her Maasricht.
Do we have to be concerned about getting around Liz's borders if we CF?
 
Could be windmill. Might or might not get Oxford 1t later.

I think our 100% research rate during the GA with all those specialists will be close to 1000 final-bpt. If we get 1800b for 4 GSes, that leaves 4500 final beakers for the balance of Educ+PP+SciMeth+Liberalism. That's 5t at ~300gpt or 1500g. We'll get some cash for maps, some cash for capturing London+Paris+Rheims. I doubt we'll get Philo for free. We'll see. I'm not suggesting we do anything different from your plan. I'd just rather not waste the beakers if we can avoid it.

Mao won't stop trading with Louis due for incestuous reasons.

I don't know what the plans for NOttingham are. PITA City. We will be able to get OBs with her if SHaka doesn't agree to peace. I'd almost rather capture Nottingham instead of London because that gives both NOttingham and York some food, but NOttingham is 1t farther from our cats. We might have a 50 XP galleon sooner than we can easily capture Nottingham. No AIs have Feudalism yet. (Won't last long.) I'd like to hit some more AIs with their britches down. But we can talk about that after we get maps, right?
 
I would think we'd get closer to 1900b for each GS.

1000 bpt? that seems like a high estimate. How brown is that? We might get 500 for specialists if you count library and the 20% for 'final bpt'. Not sure we get another 500 from commerce, and not sure we can maintain 100% research. We'll see. Sounds like you're going to 5 GSs anyway, but I guess you're saying we might not use one? Use it on Bio or Physics, or next GA.

Remember (I posted a sign) Liz's 4 galleys are on the move. I don't know if they'll return to a city if they can't see our galleys, but I think they were coming for us.
 
Right now we're getting ~420 f-bpt (going on memory). I figured growth and GA brings that up to 500 f-bpt. Then I figured about 40 specialists which is 360 f-bpt. So that's 860 f-bpt. Then you always figure out how to round things up, so that's 1000 f-bpt. :D Maybe 1500g is out of reach. The trickiest part might be that Education comes at the beginning. Anyway, the GA is next turnset, so that'll be up to whoever. I'll grow all cities I can.The more specs the better.

I'm not worried about Lizz's galleys. We'll have 3 galleons coming through those waters shortly and one coming from Hastings over the top.

ANy ideas on how to handle the Liz/Shaka warring?
 
LowtherCastle said:
WT, do you the exact promotions in London T115?
Click to expand...

Technically, T115, London had:
C1sword
Axe
CGarcher
archer

but I reported no Axe on my sign because I killed it.
A C1archer (alive) and Axe (killed) moved out of the city.

So I assume the unpromoted archer T115 became the C1archer that is now out of the city.

T117 London likely now has 1-2 replacement archers with unknown promotions, but 4 defenders is the max. (C1sword, CGarcher, +1-2 archer)
 
I'm pretty much done planning the turnset. I don't see any safe way to attack Shaka without being able to pretty much wipe out his SoD at Maastricht because it can escape either direction and threaten one of our cities. I'll simply work to accumulate the appropriate attack force. It will take a while since we're not devoting a lot of resources to unit building. I was thinking of building a mace in each of Utrecht, GC, and Sparta next. Then some cats and finally mounted to arrive quicker. The Utrecht mace goes to Paris. HorseCity whips a galleon then a mace. That galleon might end up being Lizzie's.

I could play later on today. Any final comments, objections, concerns?
 
LowtherCastle said:
I'm pretty much done planning the turnset. I don't see any safe way to attack Shaka without being able to pretty much wipe out his SoD at Maastricht because it can escape either direction and threaten one of our cities. I'll simply work to accumulate the appropriate attack force. It will take a while since we're not devoting a lot of resources to unit building. I was thinking of building a mace in each of Utrecht, GC, and Sparta next. Then some cats and finally mounted to arrive quicker. The Utrecht mace goes to Paris. HorseCity whips a galleon then a mace. That galleon might end up being Lizzie's.

I could play later on today. Any final comments, objections, concerns?
Click to expand...
No objections from me. Good luck!
LowtherCastle said:
Great. By summary, I'm thinking a summary of where we're at now, as a way of being able to play a turnset without reading the thread.
Click to expand...
I'm working on a summary of our short term and long term plans for diplomacy, war, research, etc, to get everyone on the same page (and to make sure that I am on the same page as you guys). We can add a more detailed "where we are at now" part once you are done with your turnset.
 
Are you still planning to find marble? and if not, abort MoM? What turn is too late for marble? And what do you do with Hague if you decide to abort?

In 3 turns, when you spot marble (by trading maps), you might need a settler, fast. Where would that be from and can he catch a ride over to Louis/Mao? or elsewhere?
 
WastinTime said:
Are you still planning to find marble? and if not, abort MoM? What turn is too late for marble? And what do you do with Hague if you decide to abort?

In 3 turns, when you spot marble (by trading maps), you might need a settler, fast. Where would that be from and can he catch a ride over to Louis/Mao? or elsewhere?
Click to expand...
1. Marble. Absolutely planning to acquire it if at all possible. The settler will probably have to be out west, where the galleons are, unless it's close to Horse City. If necessary, I guess we'll have to settle on the marble tile.
2. Not planning to abort MoM. I have a plan to build it no matter what, with forge+Confu 50% hammer bonus. 8 chops and 60h OF = 300h. Objections? Feel free to voice them any time, because that decision point doesn't come for a while.
3. +4 with Mao. Check.

I don't want to gift Louis any techs because I'm praying he doesn't finish Feudalism before we arrive, but others should receive Calendar. That might create some failgold from MoM that we can snarf up.

I am tempted to gift Louis Calendar when he's finishing the AP to give him a choice between Hagia and MoM.

Food for thought: Will the AP be useful for us? It gives OBs, common wars, et cetera.
 
So you're sending the canterbury confu to Hague I suppose.
Are you going to build another one for FurIsland? or just not run scientists there? If Athens needs to use its shared crab then FurIsland isn't a very good GP farm.

MoM. Great. So unless we get beat to it, we have it. That changes things. If we get 11 turns in caste, we can get our GS's without so much starvation. That might mean you need to treat Hastings and FurIsland special. They could be size 9 and contribute. As you know, we need to trigger another GA not too far in the future and I'd rather not use the free GSpy. We also have more GS bulbing. I think we should get FurIsland in on the action, so confu there.

With that in mind, another thing to consider is where Tao will show up after Philo. Let's try to get confu spread before that so we don't have to deal with possible spread failure. What's the rule on Holy City? The first one it finds without a religion, in the order the cities were founded? So that's Tao Holy in FishIsland?
 
There is a formula for where the religion is founded and it contains some RNG. In general, the highest populated cities without religion are the most likely. Capital gets a significant neg multiplier, iirc, and any city already with a religion some neg multiplier. Population and RNG then become the main factors.
 
One of our SGs had the formula, but I can't remember which one. IF we spread to Athens+Hague+Fur+FIshIsland, that leaves Corn-rinth (just noticed that change).

I think it will probalby land in Corn-rinth if nothing else spreads there first.
 
Bingo!
klarius said:
FiveAces said:
I've never seen or heard of a holy city being founded in a city that had a religion unless all cities had a religion. I have heard of a holy city being founded in an older (i.e. not the most recently-founded) city when neither city had a religion. My experience is usually the holy city is founded in the most recently-founded city that doesn't have a religion.
Click to expand...
It hasn't changed in BtS. It's still:
(10+random(10)+population)/(number_of_religions+1)/(8 for capital)

which determines the holy city.
In contrast to common believe :), new cities don't have a better chance, but being typically smaller they have a lower chance then older cities w/o religion.
Click to expand...
(Not sure but) assuming random(10) is {0,...,9}:

  • Pop4 Corn-rinth is guaranteed over any 1-rel city of pop8 or less.
  • Any city with 0 or 1 religions is guaranteed over pop15 Athens w/o.
Basically, we want to be sure to spread it to FishIsland, FurIsland, and Hague before Philo. What we really want is Mansa to found Tao of course. :cool:
 
Okay, I'll grow FurIsland rather than Athens.
SLow build the Athens GP.
SPread COnfu to FurIsland rather than Athens first.

Hastings is 2whipping a galleon so it won't be pop9, but I'll try to get it to pop7 or whatever. Leave those workers there longer than planned to chop the lh and library. That might cost Corn-c a farm.
 
LowtherCastle said:
Hastings is 2whipping a galleon so it won't be pop9, but I'll try to get it to pop7 or whatever. Leave those workers there longer than planned to chop the lh and library. That might cost Corn-c a farm.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Hastings should go to size 9 and Bulgar can afford to whip?
 
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