Does anyone know the details for the Mongols invasion plan of Europe?

taillesskangaru said:

Remember though that cities like Merv and Baghdad would have been hosting a large number of refugees from the surrounding regions.

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Hulagu himself advertised the 200,000 man number when he wrote a letter to the King of France(regarding Baghdad). And the problem with the refugee theory is that number is fairly ridiculous. Yes, they may have gotten refugees, but in the absence of modern transport they're more likely to disperse into the various mountains surrounding Greater Iran, especially considering that the agricultural systems could not support 12 times or so the usual population.

Regarding the forces of both sides at Legnica:

At Legnica Mongols most likely had considerable numerical superiority. Recently historian Jerzy Maron estimates the possible size of Henry's forces at Legnica at 3800 - 4300 men. I also think that it couldn't be more than 4600 - 5000 combatants. And quality of these forces was mixed.

So Mongols at Legnica had roughly twice as many men as Poles. Dlugosz is also right that Mongol forces were superior qualitatively, since Henry's army had very mixed quality (for example it included up to 500 or even more peasant & levy infantry - among them maybe those gold diggers, mentioned by Dlugosz).

Maybe the Mongol army was a bit less than twice bigger (but still much bigger), since they suffered heavy losses in previous battles:

Historia Tartarorum says:

Batu (...) sent with his brother Ordu ten thousand warriors against Poland, of whom very many, succumbing to confusion, fell in combat in borderland areas of this country, killed by Poles from the duchy of Cracow and of Sandomir. But because jaundice incites to very many mistakes, the Poles, in their lack of unity, neglecting the benefits which they gained, due to pride and hubris hating one another, were in a pathetic way massacred by the Tartars.

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I guess the part about "succumbing to confusion" might refer also to the victorious for Poles battle of Raciborz on 20 March 1241, in which - according to Polish accounts - about 400 Mongols were killed (however, Raciborz is by no means in the borderland area - so hard to say).

And further fragment may refer to the fact that forces of Polish duchies were beaten separately, one after another, in several battles.

In each of these battles Mongol forces most likely heavily outnumbered Polish forces. Maybe except of minor battles like Raciborz.

But the Poles learned from previous defeats - in the battles of Tursko and Chmielnik they didn't have any reserves - they just put all forces into one echelon. At Legnica duke Henry detached a reserve and deployed his forces in two echelons and had reserves. This caused serious problems to the Mongols.

Thanks to reserves, Poles could continue the fight & repulse one more Mongol attack even after forces of duke of Opole were broken (as Dlugosz writes).

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BTW:

Ironically, the battle of Raciborz (a Mongol detachment was defeated there - not main forces) was fought by duke of Opole Mieczyslav.

The same who later failed so badly at Legnica - according to Dlugosz.

ı like these long threads where one can find lots of stuff . Anyhow on the previous page , while downloading , ı noticed a discussion of Mehmet II and the 1453 siege . Ottomans are really popular these days in TV programs and a recent one was adamant that a very primary reason for the siege that Fatih needed a success , quickly and a big one , too to cement his position as the sultan . Had the siege failed he would have been ousted .