SGOTM 11 Rules Discussion

No. The great general has to exist as a great person. A warrior with tons of promotions does not count. (Neither does a military academy or a military instructor, before someone asks if you can stick a city on the fur and settle the great general in it!)

(God who are you guys? This is like dealing with a bunch of lawyers looking for legal loopholes :p)
 
DynamicSpirit said:
No. The great general has to exist as a great person. A warrior with tons of promotions does not count. (Neither does a military academy or a military instructor, before someone asks if you can stick a city on the fur and settle the great general in it!...
Click to expand...

How about settling a GS, GP, GE or GA in a city on Fur? That must surely be valid! What if a team accidently puts five great people? Will Eldine be offended and burn the world to teach us a lesson? :p
 
A great person settled in a city is no longer a great person, s/he's now a super specialist.

Btw, if a team tries to win with more than 4 GPs on the fur, the tile will turn to ice in the interturn and teleport them to the polar opposite side of the planet. :)
 
Indiansmoke: They have to be warriors i.e. the weak guys that go obsolete quite quickly.
 
Warning, this is really, really pedantic:
We need those 4 GP's and warriors on the fur on the turn of victory.

We are about to win Diplo victory. On turn 123, we will press enter. Then we win on turn 124. However, our units are not actually on the tile when enter is pressed. But we get the units to the tile on turn 124, after the victory is declared (but still the same turn). We save with the units on the tile and send that file in. Is this a valid victory assuming all other conditions are satisfied?
 
narri said:
Warning, this is really, really pedantic:
We need those 4 GP's and warriors on the fur on the turn of victory.

We are about to win Diplo victory. On turn 123, we will press enter. Then we win on turn 124. However, our units are not actually on the tile when enter is pressed. But we get the units to the tile on turn 124, after the victory is declared (but still the same turn). We save with the units on the tile and send that file in. Is this a valid victory assuming all other conditions are satisfied?
Click to expand...
This goes to the question of exactly what is meant by "turn of victory" as I asked previously (and don't think I have seen an answer):

da_Vinci said:
Might be worth clarifying the meaning of "turn you win" ... is that the turn when you generate the conditions for victory, or the turn when the victory is announced or awarded (although those might not be different for non-military victories, I suppose)

Maybe the question is fulfull condition on the turn you pull the trigger on victory, or on the turn that the gun actually fires? The AI gets a say in between those two turns, doesn't it?

dV
Click to expand...
 
This is not a pedantic question. It's actually very important. So important that DS has returned to the fourth level of Hell to question Gyathaar of his opinion. This has to resolved before the game starts for sure, since there's a lot of worms in that can...
 
Erkon said:
This is not a pedantic question. It's actually very important. So important that DS has returned to the fourth level of Hell to question Gyathaar of his opinion. This has to resolved before the game starts for sure, since there's a lot of worms in that can...
Click to expand...

Surely victory is determined once the message on the screen arrives stating you have won by diplomatic or cultural victory. One would assume any team would be careful to ensure victory conditions by then. Normally after you have hit the enter key and the usual pre turn conditions are fulfilled.

The question is how does the save have to be submitted? Would the game realise if you clicked play one more turn and moved 4 warriors onto a different site?

Hmmmm
 
Erkon said:
This is not a pedantic question. It's actually very important. So important that DS has returned to the fourth level of Hell to question Gyathaar of his opinion. This has to resolved before the game starts for sure, since there's a lot of worms in that can...
Click to expand...
Agreed. But:
In any competition the "Victory turn" is considered the one you got the screen of victory, not the one before (see GotM and HoF dates).

I suppose any player will have already the requested units on that tile well before this time, but in case even our Great Staff can't detect units movements.

So, when we will (hopefully) submit our victoriuos save, this will show the requested units on the fur, wherever this fur will be (i suspect a single tile island lost in the ice :p).

Also, i suppose that if that tile will be a city tile, the units can be inside a transport or any ship. Sure a ship can be a nice place where to celebrate the arrive of a naked Goddess of peace.
Maybe to let her feel better with some dozen of wonderful (peaceful) girls already (not-) dressed like the great Goddess and ready to celebrate.
 
Gumbolt said:
Surely victory is determined once the message on the screen arrives stating you have won by diplomatic or cultural victory. One would assume any team would be careful to ensure victory conditions by then. Normally after you have hit the enter key and the usual pre turn conditions are fulfilled.

The question is how does the save have to be submitted? Would the game realise if you clicked play one more turn and moved 4 warriors onto a different site?

Hmmmm
Click to expand...

Normally, you could look at the movement points, to tell that the warriors have moved.
For more bizarre methods of relocating the warriors, it's impossible to remove all traces from the game (e.g. in power graphs and the like), I think, and anyway there is even this thing called the "honour system". State the rule explicitly and people will follow it.
 
Going back to the 2 AI declared war thingy, does anybody know whether you get the modifier if

A. Another Civ vassalizes while you're at war with them and their new master declares on you (I would think no as they declare on you)

And

B. A civ creates a colony while you're at war with them who subsequently must enter the war
 
In the past the victory was the start of the turn where the victory was announced. I remember a game with the Wonder Bumpkins where the aim of the game was to have as many wonders per turn as possible. In the in between turn before the victory was announced we lost a city containing a lot of wonders, which resulted in the final score of our game being dramatically lower. If the rules would be similar one would expect the start of the turn where the victory is announced would be the point where the victory conditions should be met. So that's after the IBT en before you actually play any part of your own turn.
 
DynamicSpirit said:
Diplomatic victory specifically means a UN victory. AP victories are not permitted in this competition.
Click to expand...

The sign up thread states that all VC's are enabled. So will the AP play any role in this game? Or are you saying AP win is not acceptable?

PS. If this was already asked and answered, I need help comprehending what I read.
 
Jbourne said:
The sign up thread states that all VC's are enabled. So will the AP play any role in this game? Or are you saying AP win is not acceptable?

PS. If this was already asked and answered, I need help comprehending what I read.
Click to expand...

In order to count as 'winning' this SGOTM, you must win a cultural or diplomatic (UN) victory.

The savegame file that you are playing with will allow you to win all victory types, but that is merely so that if any team is silly enough to win by some other means, but it won't count as a victory for the SGOTM if you do.
 
DynamicSpirit said:
In order to count as 'winning' this SGOTM, you must win a cultural or diplomatic (UN) victory.

The savegame file that you are playing with will allow you to win all victory types, but that is merely so that if any team is silly enough to win by some other means, but it won't count as a victory for the SGOTM if you do.
Click to expand...

Perhaps even more to the point is that the fact that the AP victory is enabled means an AI can win that way if you're slack enough to allow them to! :p
 
In answer to the various questions about this...

When you win the game, you select the option to continue playing, which takes you to the turn immediately after you have won. You may submit your final winning save at any time during this turn, it does not have to be at the beginning of the turn. However, you must submit during that turn - DO NOT allow the game to proceed to any subsequent turn before submitting, as that'll risk disqualifying your victory.

Eldine will examine the save you have submitted, no matter at which point during the turn it may have been made, to determine which of the game conditions your team has satisfied.
 
Iagoc said:
In the past the victory was the start of the turn where the victory was announced. I remember a game with the Wonder Bumpkins where the aim of the game was to have as many wonders per turn as possible. In the in between turn before the victory was announced we lost a city containing a lot of wonders, which resulted in the final score of our game being dramatically lower. If the rules would be similar one would expect the start of the turn where the victory is announced would be the point where the victory conditions should be met. So that's after the IBT en before you actually play any part of your own turn.
Click to expand...
The IBT is actually the last part of the turn we just completed, right? Rather than some unassigned limbo. So it sounds like you are saying the victory conditions need to be met at the end of the completed turn before victory (which is the same as the start of the turn of victory) BEFORE you make any moves in the turn of victory.

DynamicSpirit said:
In answer to the various questions about this...

When you win the game, you select the option to continue playing, which takes you to the turn immediately after you have won. You may submit your final winning save at any time during this turn, it does not have to be at the beginning of the turn. However, you must submit during that turn - DO NOT allow the game to proceed to any subsequent turn before submitting, as that'll risk disqualifying your victory.

Eldine will examine the save you have submitted, no matter at which point during the turn it may have been made, to determine which of the game conditions your team has satisfied.
Click to expand...
So if I am interpreting this correctly, a team can use the moves it has during the turn that victory is announced to make those last minute preparations for the Goddess?

dV
 
DynamicSpirit said:
(God who are you guys? This is like dealing with a bunch of lawyers looking for legal loopholes :p)
Click to expand...

I object. :hammer:

I actually think it is best for us to get out any eventuality and make sure we are playing within the rules. We do not want to fall fowl of the rules.
 
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