SGOTM2 Germany - Team scout

Gimme a couple of minutes here...
 
Kidding about the war, or kidding about knowing what you're doing?!?! :p

Either way, you owe me a glass of Merlot, which I must now wipe from various parts of my comptuer...
 
It got late so I only did seven tonight I will finish the rest tomorrow night and posts em late with the save. Any notes you might have on the rights and wrongs are always appreciated. (scout I figured the trade thing and no war...sorry about the melot, I'm a whiskey guy myself)

Ok pre turn:

Cancel deal on spices with the French. Shop it around and can only get 6 gpt and 90 gold back from the French. I will wait until next turn to see if she can do a bit better. Btw she was the best offer by far

the French already have metallurgy so I will set the queue to Magnetism and try to trade for Metal when we fer Theory of Gravity in 3 turns

Hannover gets a switch to Granary and rushed at the cost of 184 gold
Nuremberg the same for 56 gold

New Cologne gets changed to an Aueduct due in 96...this will get much better with the F.P.
New Hannover, New Munich, New Heidelburg, and New Bremen all get the same treatment

Switch Leipzig to a market due like in 2000 years or so...that too will change

IBT

Heidelsburg University --->Bank in 20
Nuremburg Granary ---> worker in 2 with a courthouse we would get it in 1
Hannover Granary ---> worker in 2

Turn 1 (930 AD)
worker movement - improve 1st ring cities (both rings)
Add one worker to FP city now size 9 FP due in 12

Joanie now willing to offer WM, 12 gold per turn and 22 gold, I accept
Gained 71 gold for our world map (note Gandhi and Joanie willing to pay 1 gpt for it, I did not take it, I remember Scout saying they need the GPT for research)

IBT

Cologne Musket ---> musket in 6

Turn 2 (840)
Worker moves
Start on Bonn Irrigation project
Turn down science save 139 gold ToG in 1
Golly it's nice not to have to worry so much about happiness (thanks Scout)

IBT
We get ToG go Magnet turn slider to 80% due in 4 +70gpt
Nuremberg worker ---> worker due in 2
Hannover worker ---> worker due in 2
Salzburg University ---> knight
New Leipzig finish Aqueduct starts market in 34
English building JS Bach

Turn 3 (950 AD)
Nuremberg worker to Brandenburg for upsize there in 2
Hannover worker to Hamburg for upsize there in 2

Deal ToG to France for Metallurgy 1 gold and WM the last 2 just because I could
I wait on the rest to see if I can pull Mil Trad from someone ya never know. < 100 avail
New Bonn gets a tax man
MM Nuremberg Growth in 2 worker in 2
Cant do much else in Hannover worker in 2 growth in 5 size 9 (note mined desert was not my idea, I did however road it)
Pull the trigger on Newton's 81 wasted

IBT
Berlin ---> rax due in 2 (this is kinda for lack of anything better to build)
New Munich ---> bank Knight in 7 may get changed if somthing better comes up
Set Konigsberg Newtons ---> Palace

Turn 4 (960 AD)
Workers work
Brandenburg worker joins city now size 9
Hamburg worker joins city now size 8

IBT
England and Russia sign peace
Frankfurt University ---> bank in 15
Nuremberg worker ---> worker MM again
Hannover worker ---> worker MM for growth in 2 worker in 2 should stay steady at size 8
Moscow built Sun Tzu
French building JS Bach
French Building Magellan
French Building Shakespeare's
English building Shakespeare's
Japanese building Js Bach
Japanese building Magellans
Japanese building Shakespeare's
Indians building Magellans
Indians building Shakespear's
Chinese building Shakespear's
These may have started last turn - my notes got a bit fuzzy

Turn 5 (970AD)
Hannover worker to Heidelburg there in 3
Nuremberg worker to New Leipzig there in 1 join next turn
France now has Mil Trad
Sell Metallurgy to Russia for 76 gold
China has ToG and no 13gold
India has Tog and no 1 gold
No one else has $

IBT
Berlin Rax ---> Knight in 5
Hamburg (BB in a min I'm hungry) University ---> Bank
Bremen Bank ---> cannon (i figure we'll want some artillary for eventual attack)
Bonn university ---> Bank
Magellans built in Reims (france)
Everyone building that went to Shake's
Lost our dyes

Turn 6 (980 AD)
Turn down Science to 60% save 106 gold Magnet in 1
New leipzig now size 8 (joined worker)
Sell China Metallurgy for dyes, WM, and 26 gold
Notice an open area down south so I change Berlin to a settler in hopes it's still there when I get there.

IBT
Get Magnetism ask for Steam (I screwed this up I guess it asked me to choose what I wanted to start on no the free tech cause we got Nationalism as our free tech)
Nuremberg worker ---> worker MM for 2 and 2
Hannover worker ---> worker Hmmm....can't figure how I mm'ed last time growth in 3 worker in 2
Keep building the west wing of our palace
China completed Shakes in Nanking (a size 2 city?)

Turn 7 (990 AD)
Start settler south east towards opening
Hannover worker to Hamberg there in 2
Nuremberg worker to New Hamberg there in 2
Sell Russia Magnets for 20 gold and WM
I'll Wait on the rest (It's 1:30 am and I get up for work at 4:30)
I'll save here and ask your oppinions on a few things and finish tomorrow night (tues)
 
Back, sorry for my unnanounced absence guys. I have some serious catching up to do. I'll read through what I've missed tomorrow morning & chime in with my $.02

Welcome to the team Northern Pike!

Mistfit: in the active sceen there will either be a number (for example (14)dyes) that tells you how many turns are left, or no number when the 20 turns have expired but the computer is getting a great deal so they won't cancel it.
 
Welcome back, GK :wavey:

=======================
scoutsout said:
This means that Mistfit will be ushering in the Industrial Age. I can't recall if you can manipulate the free tech in Vanilla or not... I know there was a time that Nationalism was always the free tech... it might be possible for us to get Steam Power if we set the queue to Nationalism after we learn Magnetism.

Tallanas said:
As far as I know, 1.29f made the free tech able to any of the 3 starters. In a recent game, two scientific nations got different starting techs when the Age changed over, so I assume it's not set in stone. Anyone know a sure fire way of getting the right one?

I will now revise that last statement... That game was in PTW... :coffee:
=======================

As for the turns so far, everything seems to be going well. The only thing I can maybe suggest is looking at our wines deal with Japan and trying to renew it for ToG or Magnetism, if it's near running out.

Thank god the war with France thing was a joke! Mind you, it got me thinking... How often have you seen AI Civs go to war immediately upon getting a decisive military tech advantage? They do it with IW, Chivalry, and MT.

So here's a question for the team. What should we do to safeguard our own position, and should we perhaps look to see if we could take advantage of any war with Russia? Moscow is a fat target now it has Sun Tsu's and the Pyramids...

Tal
 
Welcome back Gengis! Since I caught the reason for your absence in GK2, we'll make sure you have a chance to catch up. NP is in the order after Mistfit, so this won't come back to you until this weekend at the earliest...
 
As far as I can tell with the Free Tech at the turn of the Industrial Era you do kinda have a choice. Bill Nye the Science guy popped up and asked what I wanted to research. (At this point I was thinking this would be my free tech) My choices were mil Trad, Steam, and Nationalism. Had I chosen Nationalism I would have gotten Steam free, but I read it wrong so we ended up with nationalism. Not the best case senerio but like NP said it will make good trade bait. My plan is to wait a turn to see if Russia gets Steam (fingers and toes crossed). Trade France as much as I can get for selling them into the IA, getting MT out of the deal. Then turning around and trade Russia for steam if they get it for MT. Final note, I think the idea of not getting the most (gpt) out of the AI is not working. The next turn the AI trade between themselves and are broke again. Unless we want to become a totally philanthropic nation, and gift everyone evrey time we get a tech I think that we will be better served getting the most cash we can out of every deal to help finance our own research. We have 15 techs to get before we go to the Modern times.

For a mid and long term plan I would suggest the following :

The towns in our Empire that have a Lib, Uni, and Bank, and Courthouse if needed turn to Wealth. We will need the cash for Research and we can always cash upgrade our old units if the money is available.

The first 10 - 12 techs we get, sell to everyone we can, for as much as we can (With the F.P comming online there is no reason we shouldn't be able to be 1st to every tech in 4 - 5 turns a pc.) Once we get to the last 3-4 techs of the era stop selling them.

Once we get to the modern era try to get to Fission 1st (this should be no problem either) at that point gift France everything up to and including Fission to give her a head start on building the UN.

Stop researching as we will have 20-30 turns for her to build the UN and we don't want to help anyone get to space. With a spy in france we will need to keep track of her progress so on the turn she has completed the UN we can attack the town and the surrounding towns (raze these to help combat flip possibilities) then wait 11 turns for the vote to come up and win.

The only things I can see that would foul things up would be a war with someone. With us being a great trading partner I can't see that happening. The only other worry I have is France winning by culture. Scout said this rarely happens but with her have the most cash and typically building 3 - 4 wonders at a time I do not know. The other worry is that with us burning the way thru the Industrial era there will be a lot of wonders available so she may try to start building it in her 3rd or fourth best city.

As a side note:
Is there something in the rules that says that we can't build the UN gift it to someone weak like russia and then take it back from them? It would be quicker but prolly not playing to the intent of the variant.

These are just my thoughts. Please feel free to critisize, discuss or start other planning on what we will do. We have under 100 turns left of this game and I think we need a plan.
 
Mistfit said:
Unless we want to become a totally philanthropic nation, and gift everyone evrey time we get a tech I think that we will be better served getting the most cash we can out of every deal to help finance our own research. We have 15 techs to get before we go to the Modern times.
If we have a monopoly on a tech, it's okay to hold it for a few turns, but once we trade it to one, it doesn't make sense to withhold it from the others. One or two AI should be able to pay a decent price. From there, trade it cheap or give it away, so that their research can be put to use on techs we don't have...
The towns in our Empire that have a Lib, Uni, and Bank, and Courthouse if needed turn to Wealth.
It is much to early to build wealth. Let those cities build barracks, harbors, and units. Build a few Galleons and map out the oceans. Build some Rifles, maybe a one or two more knights. We are weak compared to France, and we do not want to get attacked.
The only things I can see that would foul things up would be a war with someone.
Which is why we do not want to "build Wealth".
The only other worry I have is France winning by culture.
Not going to happen. It takes a LOT of culture to win that way, and with this tech pace, it will not accumulate in time.
Is there something in the rules that says that we can't build the UN gift it to someone weak like russia and then take it back from them?
The variant specifically states we cannot build the UN.
 
Yep, i think you made all the points I wanted to, Scout :)

Other than start building veteran units, in time for a big upgrade to modern untis with the cash we accumulate in the post-fission period...
 
I jsut read over the last couple pages I missed(like 8, you guys have been very busy :goodjob: ).

Amazingly I don't really have too much to add, sucks we lost Smith's to a cascade, but it happens. Amazing pace on the techs! :thumbsup:

As soon as I get my disk I'll check out the save & chime in with my $.02(it isn't easy to judge progress with logs alone). My only initial worry is that we're going overboard on barracks/units. This is cutting into out budget alot, and we need all the cash we can get(even if only to gift away surplus to the AI to increase their tech pace). Keep in mind that selling our techs for gpt while will help us a bit short term slows down the AI's pace(and effectivly takes them out of "the race." It's much better for us to have everyone getting a tech in 6-8, then us getting a tech in 4 & everyone else in 12, tech pace isn't determined by how fast "you" get techs, but by how fast everyone does.

Back to the barracks/units, regardless of whether we're attack or who we have to fight to take the UN, we don't need 50 Cavs & 30 Infs. We need a small group of Cavs(10 or so tops), a bit more Infantries(mabey 15-20), a nice size fleet of ships(just in case we have to go overseas for the UN), and a large group of arties. Artillary are the thing that will make a deffensive war stand, without taking casualties and losing cities. And since we'll only need to take 1(maybe 2 cities tops) when going after the UN we don't a large invasion force, some defenders a couple attackers & lots of artillary will give us the city quicker(which is the name of the game) then going overkill with CAvs.
 
Mistfit, good going so far. If you still have some of your round to play (Lauren before Joanie, of course :D), you might want to switch most of our first-core cities apart from Konigsberg to cathedrals/colosseums as factory pre-builds. I think this will help us more right now than producing an assortment of military units from those cities.

Gengis, I agree that we'll want a lot of artillery eventually--perhaps fifty, since you don't put a number on it. But other that that, I think you go too far in assuming that we'll only need an army sufficient to take one or two enemy cities. The truth is that the AI will build Wonders in some really strange places (possibly even with Great Leaders, since this is vanilla), and we just don't know. If the UN happens to end up in city A, which from our standpoint is behind cities B, C, D, and E, it will be much easier and quicker to take all five than to manoeuvre in the artificial way necessary to take A alone. (If you're interested in the difficulties that arise when the human team can't attack enemy cities in the tactically logical order, take a look at OFW2, the capital-killing SG.) It's also possible that wiping out the UN-building civ entirely, to remove an automatic vote against us, will look like a good idea at the time. So I don't really like the idea of trying to estimate the smallest army we can build and still win. I'd hate to see us do everything right until the military endgame and then lose a lot of time for lack of a strong army.
 
I'm generally in agreement with NP on the military thing... and will add that we've got Russia pretty well boxed in, and France usually gets adventurous at some point. A nice squadron of maybe a dozen Cavalry can be useful in the defense when coupled with that artillery stack. (Don't we have some Catapults that need upgrading or disbanding?)

Though I can't remember the formula off the top of my head, the math behind the military advisor respects units with a high attack value. I would like to get us to "Average" compared to France... I really don't want Joanie picking the time to fight...

...of course, maybe I'm just suffering from Bugs1 flashbacks....
 
Ok pre turn I decide to sell magnets around the table

France --- WM, 180 gold, 55 per turn ( not even willing to sell MT straight up for magnet)
Russia --- WM, 27 gold
India --- WM, 1 gold (now gracious, we sold him ivory done in 3 turns)
England gets gifted ToG
Japan Gets gifted ToG
China gets nothing because our silk deal is up next turn so I will use tech to renegotiate
Only Liz , Mao and Toku not in IA

Steam set at 100% due in 5

IBT
China wants RoP and MPP...no thanks how about 5 gold...good now go away
English building something or another shakes I think

Turn 8 (1000 AD)
Worker gets added to New Leipzig now size 9 (bigest it can get without happiness help)
Worker joined to Heidelberg now size 8 ( lots of extra happiness here and still 3 extra food)
Workers working
Move settler SW

Well no luck on the Steam - Cathy must have pulled Nationalism for free and sold it immediately to Joan who is now broke

Trade Mao nationalism for Silks

India still down Nationalism and England and Japan down Magnet and Nation. My hope is one of the four buy MT so we can trade for Nationalism. It's worth a try for a turn or 2.

We have extra lux's for Joan and China but they have nothing to offer

IBT
Nada

Turn 9 (1010 AD)
Nuremberg worker --- worker due MM for 2 and 2
Hannover worker --- worker no MM needed down to size 7
Salzburg Knight --- rifle due in 7
Dortmund Rifle --- Uni
New Stutt Lib --- court due in 80
Nuremberg worker moves to Brandenburg there in 2
Hannover to Salzberg there in 3 (I put him on a goto because I'm afraid that I will forget and start working him on the way) so he may arrive there after my turns

IBT
Japan now wants MPP and ROP same deal as I gave Mao
Cathy's troops are moving around a bit by our borders, I don't know if this means anything but I thought I'd mention it
Cologne Rifle --- bank
Breman Cannon --- cannon
Stuttgart court --- uni
The French have built JS Bach in Marseilles size 6 city

Turn 11 (1020AD)
Workers work ( I notice "Mistfits Weedy Moment #2" I built a fortification NE of Frankfort, I've misclicked this when clicking the same thing for a stack of workers)

Move a pike out with the settler to head south to see if we can find a bit of land
Add worker to Brandenburg now size 9 can get this one to size 10
Trade Nationalism to India for Military Tradition even up he's now back to polite

IBT
Nuremburg worker ---worker MM for 2 and 2
Hannover worker --- worker in 2 cant do growth in less that 3 I have a worker working on the problem

Turn 12 (1030 AD)

I will start moving the Nuremberg worker to Brandenburg but the next player will have to move him the rest of the way and add him to the city (he's currently one tile NE of town)

The settler is just out of our territory on a MTN with a pike 3 tiles south of New Konigsberg

I will leave the worker in Hannover for the next player to move to the next city

There is a worker just NE of Salsburg that is intended for joining that city I don't think he is still on a goto but if he is I appologize

Science should be turned down to 90% with one turn left til steam we may need some of these workers to do railing instead of adding to cities.



I hope this is what we were looking for in my turns. Next up!!!



 
Northern Pike said:
Mistfit, good going so far. you might want to switch most of our first-core cities apart from Konigsberg to cathedrals/colosseums as factory pre-builds. I think this will help us more right now than producing an assortment of military units from those cities.

Thank you. We could change out the banks in our sothern core for factories next turn Brandenburg is the only one that will have to be switched to something else before the next turn if you want to put one there.

In hind sight the banks are not a great idea because if I read it correctly they only increase the amount of money being made after science and upkeep. We will be at max or near max science for the res of the game
 
mistfit said:
I notice "Mistfits Weedy Moment #2" I built a fortification NE of Frankfort

:lol:

Ah well, it may come in useful, at least it's near France ;)

Good turns though, the game is progressing so fast now that I hardly recognise it from my last set of turns! Everything is building up to a rapidly approaching climax!
 
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