SGOTM2 Germany - Team scout

@ Scout- I guess I'll have to break down and get C3C one of these days, as finding plain Vanilla SG's is rough in these high tech times :D

Good luck with your turns.
 
HA! You think vanilla's bad? The increased the min gambit from 40 to 50 turns in C3C.:(
 
This is going to be painful... Hopefully you guys will be more amused than upset with me.... but first, a digression.

I got nominated for a "Player's Choice" award in GOTM30, for my contributions to the "Spoiler Threads". First there was "Scout's Ouch 1", a screencap of me getting beaten to the U.N. - by a single turn. Then there was "Scout's Ouch 2", me getting beaten to SETI. Again, by one turn.

Seeing a trend emerging, in GOTM31 I posted "Scout's Ouch v.1.31", me losing an ARMY to a culture flip.

After you guys read my turnlog, please, please tell me you're laughing "near" me, and not "at" me. This one really, really hurts.
 
@"Q" - Please, please don't try to top this mistake I just made.
@Gengis - you are allowed to laugh AT me.
@Tweed - looks like we're gonna need the warriors we're gonna pump out of that little town you founded. I lost 2.
@Tal - you might have let Berlin riot, but... not on the turn you handed it off to Tweed.

That's right. I mis-clicked, didn't catch it, and let Berlin riot. On turn ten. There is a silver lining to this cloud, but first, "Scout's Ouch, v.sgotm2.1": (I zoomed out, but if you look close, you can see the smoke from the :smoke:)

 
That's not that bad, you had me worried like you got us into war with the Russians & we have a stack of doom outside Berlin.
 
Pre-flight check.

Worker will be finished roading next turn. Excellent.

Cities:

Change queue in Berlin to warrior. Done next turn. Growth next turn without MM. Good.
Change Leipzig to worker (6)
Hamburg to Warrior.

Diplo Check
Russia has contact with England and France, and can trade contact. This tells me 2 things:
1) Russia has writing
2) At this stage of the game (pre-map making) England and France are on this landmass... remember to discuss research priorities with team

Buy Alphabet from Russia for 70g+6gpt
=====
IBT - Barb warrior attacks our warrior and dies.
Berlin Warrior>Warrior
=====
Turn 1 (2110)
I take a screencap of Berlin - with the BG tile NW of the city, it is producing exactly 5spt, and 5 surplus fpt.

Worker begins mining tile NW of Berlin
Scouting warrior near Moscow moves west to make contact - sees an orange border!
=====
IBT -
Hamburg Warrior>Archer (7)
=====
Turn 2 (2070)
Hit F3 - Barb warning near Leipzig, new warrior moves W from Hamburg
Western warrior moves west next to English border. We have met the English
Elizabeth (polite) up Writing, Masonry, has 3 cities plus London, 64g and contact with France.
Check Russia. Up writing, Masonry, Has one city besides Moscow (St. Petersburg). Has a worker for sale!!!!
I buy a Russian worker for 3gpt.
Slave worker goes to help mine BG NW of Berlin
=====
IBT -
Berlin Warrior>Settler
=====
Turn 3 (2030)
This could get touchy here... Berlin (Size 5) needs the warrior for MP duty. MM citizen on unmined BG to forest next to river. Grows in 4, Settler in 4.
Hamburg warrior NW to Leipzig
Continue to move scouting warriors into the fog...we must find the french
Diplo Check - Russia is now up Iron Working
=====
IBT - Nothing
=====
Turn 4 (1990)
Push warriors into the fog
Diplo check, nothing new
=====
IBT - An English Warrior moves into York
=====
Turn 5 (1950)
Push Warriors into fog
No change in Diplo
=====
IBT - A barb warrior appears out of the fog to the east (way east)
Leipzig Worker>Worker
=====
Turn 6 (1910)
Leipzig worker moves to Ivory (we need the lux)
Skip Warrior in Berlin (for settler escort)
Move Eastern scouting warrior to jungle tile...
Move our worker NW to work on road to Leipzig
Move slave SW of Berlin to start roading
No change in diplomacy
=====
IBT - Barb warrior kills our eastern scouting warrior
Berlin Settler>Warrior
=====
Turn 7 (1870)
Trying to remember Offa's 4-turn unit/factory trick... it seems the magic number is ten shields in a single turn. We need a pop 5 city when we build the escort...
Settler Pair East
All worker start roads
=====
IBT - our western warrior is killed by barbs...
=====
Turn 8 (1830)
Move a warrior N near Leipzig, spot a barb camp.
Southern scouting warrior continues to push into the fog.
Settler Pair NE
Diplo check, Russia has a worker for sale, but I can't afford it.
=====
IBT
Hamburg Archer>Warrior
=====
Turn 9 (1790)
Settler pair towards green site
Archer towards settler pair
2 barbs are in camp N of Leipzig, fortify and hope one attacks across river...
=====
IBT - Leipzig is now connected to Ivory
Barb warrior attacks our warrior and dies, our warrior promotes

In a precedent-setting :smoke: move, our team's fearless "leader" mis-clicked and set the queue to "Archer" instead of "warrior" in Berlin, missed the mis-click and the city's growth, and ....

Berlin Riots (WHAT!??!?!)

check berlin - was set to Archer? :mad: Berlin Hires a taxman.
=====
Turn 10
Found Konigsberg
Move Archer next to Konigsberg
Whack a barb camp and collect 25g, warrior promotes to elite
Diplo check - Russia will now offer us Masonry for 35g+3gpt. I think we'll wait an buy it when it's cheaper.
=====
 
After Action Review:

The good: Got Konigsberg founded. Started a Temple. Need some serious worker turns to improve it before it can legitimately build a wonder. (Great Library). Bought a worker from Russia. Pretty cheap.

The bad: Lost a couple of scouting warriors.

The ugly: Welp, I let Berlin Riot...sorry about that Q. Hopefully it'll snap back next turn, produce the archer, and give you something to work with.

Some things for the next player:

There is a worker SE of Leipzig, ready to build a road. That road will hook up the Ivory, and solve some of our happiness problems.

Those are actually 2 workers SW of Berlin, the slave is roading. Move the German worker SW to mine that grass square by the river, then road. This is part of something pretty powerful.

Here's the silver lining - I think we have a potential 4-turn unit/settler factory here. I couldn't quite get it going, but over the next 10 turns, I think we might be able to pump out 4-5 settlers AND 4 or so Warriors.

Offa did a little trick in GOTM30 that went beyond Bamspeedy's "Babylon's Diety Settlers" that was awesome. I believe the key was 10 shields in a single turn (to make a warrior) and then making a settler in 3. (A settler costs 30 shields). Even if we can't quite make a warrior settler pair every 4 turns, if we can do it every 5, we can get right back in this game pretty quick.

I'll try to find a link.
 
Okay - Offa posted a settler factory in GOTM30 that managed to pump out a warrior AND a settler every 4 turns. I'm not quite sure that we'll be able to achieve that here, but everybody have a look at Offa's GOTM30 Spoiler post and let's see if we can't figure out a way to apply the same principles here.

Following that, we need to figure out if we need a Temple in Konigsberg or not, and how we're going to get the workers down there to do the needed improvements.

I'm going to upload my save now.
 
Poor old Scout! :lol: Those pesky Berliners - always whinging about something ;)

I like the idea of the settler factory - looks like we'll need it if we are competing against three other nations for this continental landmass... Am just going to open some discussion topics now...

Diplomacy

So, we have 3 civilizations to fend off. Question is, who out of those is the least aggressive, or the most likely ally? I have never had anything but grief from England and Russia, so I am thinking it would be the French...

Will we want to have an immediate, decisive war against one of these?

Exploration

Do we need to step this up a little? Mainly because we keep losing scouts :rolleyes: Also, I hate not knowing exactly what my enemies are up to!

Konigsberg

Going for a long build/pre-build, I always find it helps to have a temple. Just adds a bit more security... With the ivory, two MPs and a temple, Konigsberg can grow fairly big without us having to worry about it mid-GL. Also, a temple will open up another BG square...

Military

More archers and warriors needed - we could also do with spearmen as a matter of some urgency - a large uprising of horsemen could put a serious dent in our fledgling empire!


Over to you guys...
 
Regarding the settler factory: I believe even Offa thinks you have to have a cow to pull it off.... but if we put our heads together, maybe we can think of a way to pull off a 4-5 turn unit/settler factory. We'll just have to think carefully, and be prepared to do a little micromanagement.

Regarding the other civs, and possible war: Russia is the nearest neighbor, and the most obvious threat. Before we get into planning for such things - I need to "put something on the table here".

There are a lot of "little things", particularly with respect to war, that can really bite you when the time comes for the U.N. vote. We'll probably need to have a whole separate discussion on just that...

Regarding Exploration: That is an important priority right now. The single most important thing is to make contact with the French - for tech trading. When that elite warrior north of Leipzig heals, he could be sent west. There is another warrior generally east of Moscow. He should continue to push into the fog to the east and southeast. The French are somewhere on this landmass, and we must find them.

The temple in Konigsberg is open to discussion....and I 'd like Gengis to weigh in on it. We can send another warrior from Hamburg as an MP, and use the archer to fend off any barbs that show up. We definitely need to get Konigsberg, and spices, connected as soon as we can. Ivory will be hooked up in about 3 turns.

Regarding the military - I think it might be a little early for spears yet. I'll let Gengis weigh in on that too. Once we get a decent high shield city up and running, we'll probably want a barracks, and put together a unit factory.

Back to the dotmaps, and a question:

Do you guys see a city site that lacks fresh water, but has enough food to grow to size 6, with maybe a couple of bonus grass or plains tiles nearby? That's the sort of thing we're looking for in a unit factory....
 
I'm working some numbers for various forms of factories, but I'm at work now and can't post much. I'll get back with ya'll in a couple of hours.
 
scoutsout said:
Do you guys see a city site that lacks fresh water, but has enough food to grow to size 6, with maybe a couple of bonus grass or plains tiles nearby? That's the sort of thing we're looking for in a unit factory....

Not without fresh water... Both the red and yellow cities from my earlier dotmap would be suitable shield rich sites, though. The others require too much worker improvement to be worthwhile unit factories...

Tal
 
@ Scout- You call that a screw up? You haven't seen the things I've done before playing this game :eek:

I'd like to wait until Friday evening ( Western European Time) to play my turns, so we can get some discussion in first. Ya'll jump in with whatever you've got!

Playing with the numbers, I don't see Berlin getting to a 4/5 turn factory without lumberjacking one of the forests to grassland. If it turns out to be bonus grassland that's better, but if not that's ok because we're lacking food. (If only that plains wheat was on grassland...) Since we have the slave worker roading the forest square anyway, I would recommend having him start chopping after he roads. The native worker could mine and road the BG, then come back and assist the chopping. If not, we have a 6 turn unit/settler factory after the BG is mined.

I agree, getting down south and meeting Joanie is crucial. We need to try and pick up some techs at 3rd tier to keep up, at least until the GL comes in. Speaking of which, I say we try to trade HBR for Writing when it comes in, and start going for Lit. We also need to scout a bit more up north. Hopefully our next bunch of troops are a bit heartier :D

Konigsberg should probably get the temple first. It will take some time to connect it to our network (roading over mountain, hill and/or jungle), and it needs to grow. We should be able to get some workers down there soon, especially if we irrigate the flood plains in Leipzig.
 
Sorry for the double post. I agree with Tal, there's not much without fresh water that has enough food to get to 6. Both red and yellow would be good unit farms.
 
Temple in Kongisburg: I like the temple, but only because it's the most expensive thing we have. Writing is already owned by everyone so we really should be starting our pre-build, the temple works fine for this until we get Masonry. We won't need those borders expanded until we're at pop 6 or so, and at that point the GL will be giving us culture.

Leipzig: Get rid of the build queue, then after the worker I'd go with a warrior, then more workers. We've got to get that city up in pop a bit & improved so we can do better then kick out a worker every 10 turns.

Berlin: Tricky, but I don't think we can get a 4 turn unit/settler factory. The best we can get is 5 food per turn, and at that we're making 6 sheilds per turn. I think we can we're going to have to settle for a 5 turn settler pump. The one thing that can really help us, chopping down some forest to find a BG, we don't have the workers for.

Spices- I think the spot 1SE,3S will be good, it's at RCP 5.5, has river access & one of the spices. Unfortunatly it has nothing but jungle, but what can you do.

Archers- I don't think we need them. I'd much rather have 2 warriors at this point then an archer or a spear.
 
Gengis Khan said:
Berlin: Tricky, but I don't think we can get a 4 turn unit/settler factory. The best we can get is 5 food per turn, and at that we're making 6 sheilds per turn. I think we can we're going to have to settle for a 5 turn settler pump. The one thing that can really help us, chopping down some forest to find a BG, we don't have the workers for.

Once we have the last BG mined, we can make it a 5 turn warrior/settler pump.

1) Work Wheat-BG-BG-BG-Forest for 2 food and 10 shields (warrior)
2) Work Game-Wheat-BG-BG-BG for 5 food and 8 shields
3) Work Game-BG-BG-BG-Forest for 3 food and 9 shields (grow and work forest, leave 19 shields in the box)
4) Work Game-Wheat-BG-BG-BG-Grassland for 5 food and 8 shields (total 27 shields)
5) Same as #4, grow and return to pop 5. This method does waste 7 shields, though.
 
I like the temple (in Konigsberg), but only because it's the most expensive thing we have.
Considering the comment re: Writing, it sounds like we need to use the temple as a pre-build, switch to Pyramids when we get Masonry, then to GL when we get Lit. Masonry is available for purchase. I thought it wise to let the treasury build up a bit after buying a worker and alphabet... Catherine wanted our entire treasury for Masonry.

I suspect the price for Masonry to drop when we meet France.

Re: Leipzig - I thought about letting the population grow a bit in Leipzig, but we'll need that worker to move south just as soon as that road is complete. We need lots of worker turns around Konigsberg...

Having said that, the next worker out of Leipzig could be used to irrigate/road a floodplain tile for growth, then irrigate/road a plains tile for food/shields, and develop that city into a worker pump... concur that we need to build a warrior there to let the city grow a bit.

If we can get Berlin to size 5, we should be able to make a warrior in a single turn. Do you think we might be able to do a 5-turn unit/settler cycle? Or do you think even that's out of reach?

Spices- I think the spot 1SE,3S will be good, it's at RCP 5.5, has river access & one of the spices. Unfortunatly it has nothing but jungle, but what can you do.
I believe that is Tal's "purple city". Yes, it will need many worker turns. If the Russians weren't so close I'd say wait on it, but I think it's important to claim those spices - with the next settler. There is an incense hill E. of Konigsberg, but it will be some time before (if) we can claim it.

Archers- I don't think we need them. I'd much rather have 2 warriors at this point then an archer or a spear.
The archer build in Berlin was a stupid mis-click on my part. I meant to build a warrior there. I wanted one Archer near our wonder city (Konigsberg) for barb control. We need at least one more warrior there as an MP, especially if we don't plan to finish the temple. Lots of warriors sounds like a good idea at the moment.

At the moment, I wonder if we ought to consider interrupting Berlin's settler production to get a worker out of there to help connect and improve Konigberg....

Edit - cross-posted with Q, and so far I like his idea...Gengis - give that a look....
 
I'm not sure what third BG he's talking about, we have 2 BGs, 2 regular grasslands, and a whole bunch of forests that might contain a BG.
 
@ Scout- I like the idea of kicking a worker out of Berlin before setting up the factory. It will take at least 7 turns to get the BG mined, anyway. The worker from Berlin could start the road to Konigsberg and the worker roading south of Leipzig could join in that endeavour. The worker/slave team could then road to purple town to hook up the spices.

What about the Berlin archer? Do we take him scouting, or leave him around the Fatherland for barbs? I'd say scout, but I want ya'll's opinions.
 
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