World History Mod development thread

Alright, I am still continuing my studies and I have reorganized some civics categories. Some will definitely be new to you so if you have any questions or criticisms, please fire away. Stop me when you want to Kev. Once you approve of these, I will create some concepts as to what effects they will have, since I know more about government than coding...



Executive Civics-- Who should enforce the law?

Despotism- Laws are carried out by whoever can make and enforce them.
Monarchy- Laws are carried out by a king, queen, sultan, or dictator.
Apartheid- Laws are carried out by the privelaged.
Papacy- Laws are carried out through a religious hierarchy.
Nepotism- Laws are carried out by a ruling family.
Parliamentary- Laws are carried out by a legislative minister at the discretion of the legislature’s majority party.
Unitary Executive- Laws are carried out by an elected leader with sole executive authority.

Legal Civics-- What makes a Law legitimate?

Barbarism- Laws are created by whoever has the power to; laws may not exist.
Marshall Law- Laws are created by the Executive.
Vassalage- Laws are created by social hierarchy.
Religious Law- Laws are laid forth by God.
Common Law- Laws are created by the court system through the setting of precedents.
Populism- Laws are created by a vote of the majority.
Bicameralism- Laws are created by a vote of the majority and minority.

Suffrage Civics-- Who has the Right to rule?

Anarchy- Rule by no one
Autocracy- Rule by one
Plutocracy- Rule by wealthy and propertied
Theocracy- Rule by God
Oligarchy- Rule by minority
Democracy- Rule by majority
Republic- Rule by law

Economics Civics- What purpose should the economy serve?

Decentralization- The economy serves no interest.
Mercantilism- The economy should serve the interests of the empire.
Corporatism- The economy should serve the interests of the government and the elite.
Collectivism- The economy should serve the goal of creating a stateless, classless society.
Free Markets- The economy should serve the interests of the individual.
Nationalization- The economy should serve the goal of establishing economic and social equality.
Mixed Economy (Capitalism)- The economy should balance the interests of the government and the individual.

After you are done with the whole thing, will a random map with random civ spawn be available? this will possibly require a couple of weeks to mod, at least. But I think the feature would be very, very neat.

Your attemp to create a Rhye's again, but with more depth, is a very great thing. The inclusion of such a map would make this mod even better.

@lord_joakim: entirely possible. Once I delete all the settler map stuff it shouldn't be too hard. But as you pointed out, the mainstream release (which is byfar the one I'm looking most forward to ) is due first.

@GeneralSpecific: thanks for the civics It'll be a blessing when the time comes, I'm already late (these settler maps take a lot longer than I originally thought).

I really like the foreign policy one. It addresses a gap in the traditional game's civics. All the stuff you posted works fine, even if I'm too lazy to do any fine tuning to it now. Just note to do whatever amount of civics is most comfortable, so it doesn't have to be 7, and also remember it's easier to narrow down than to add more.

Thanks for your work
Kevin

Just a thought regarding leaders: because it would be unrealistic to keep the same leader for a civ for over six thousand years, and it would be unmanagable to replace leaders after realistic timeframes (every 2 to 3 turns on average, I think!), would it possibly be a good idea to remove leaders altogether and replace them with nameless ambassadors instead? Just a thought...

Oddly I've considered that; but what advantage does a nameless ambassador have over a leader? Ambassadors are mortal too A single leaderhead kind of gives a snapshot of the civ/empire, even if it's not the entirely accurate one throughout the entire length of the civ's life. Plus, I love the artwork, and I should have nearly enough for all civs. Although I may decide on your route if I discover the need, chances are I will probably go with whatever leader was the most influential. But I have thought of scrapping leaderheads, and it remains a possibility.

I plan on starting putting leaders, leaderhead pics, and religions on my first page post, within the timeframe of about 1 or 2 posts, so I can keep things moving while you all wait for the settler maps to be finished. Then we can all square away and disagreements, ie of which leader was most influential to whichever civ.

Kevin

The two epic questions to any civ4 mod:

Are you renaming civs, and are you adding Hitler?

1) yes, and 2) maybe. For leaders I am trying to select the leaders that most characterize the empire, and have influenced it the most. Obviously linking Hitler to Germany is unfair and they're not really related, but I won't deny his impact, and it would be interesting if I could work him in there.

I'm soon going to put up, on top of the other stuff I listed last post, a wishlist; this will contain small requests for opinions or information (ie what leader do you think is better for x civ?), whereas bigger stuff I will ask in a post or seperate thread.

Kevin

Good luck with the mod! I would love to see it done and I hope it doesn't run into a dead end like som many before it. Add Hitler!

Good luck and keep up the good work!

Civ Fanatics: the only place where everyone wants more Hitler!

Just two more entirely tangental and pointless questions from your's truly...

Regarding changes of civilizations, how do you intend to work in historical events in with the inevitable changes in the political landscape? Maybe it's just because I don't really play mods, but I've never quite understood how it could work. If, in game, Scotland is conquered by Norway, for example, how could the formation of the United Kingdom occur? If America never gains access to slaves (is that a resource, by the way?), what would be the rationale for the American Civil War? And so on.

Population Quantitization: Are you actually planning to go down the complex road of quoting each city's population in real numbers, or are you merely going to require the building of units to use a certain amount of food to train, and then return that food cost when they're disbanded, to create the same effect?

What's gonna happen with Traits? Will you needa ditch them for balance issues, ala Rhy's and Fall?

If not, may i suggest you follow my sig and have a look at Dynamic traits for this? coz that would be really quite awesome

kevinman4404 said:

1) yes, and 2) maybe. For leaders I am trying to select the leaders that most characterize the empire, and have influenced it the most. Obviously linking Hitler to Germany is unfair and they're not really related, but I won't deny his impact, and it would be interesting if I could work him in there.

I'm soon going to put up, on top of the other stuff I listed last post, a wishlist; this will contain small requests for opinions or information (ie what leader do you think is better for x civ?), whereas bigger stuff I will ask in a post or seperate thread.

Kevin

Click to expand...

What nations are you renaming? Also, linking Hitler with Germany is not untrue. You should only judge whether he was an important leader in German history (Not only modern) and maybe whether he was a good or a bad leader (He did manage to rebuild Germany's economy, at least for a period until he destroyed it again )

Mattastic said:

Regarding changes of civilizations, how do you intend to work in historical events in with the inevitable changes in the political landscape? Maybe it's just because I don't really play mods, but I've never quite understood how it could work. If, in game, Scotland is conquered by Norway, for example, how could the formation of the United Kingdom occur? If America never gains access to slaves (is that a resource, by the way?), what would be the rationale for the American Civil War? And so on.

Click to expand...

Hmm... Following that, would America still raise if the natives hold off the europeans?

Giving Moral support!

You beter add Hitler so I can raze Jewish nations.

Moderator Action: Warned! - Racist comments are not allowed or wanted here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

@Mattastic- it wouldn't. Anyways, for your first example, it will be represented by Britain, not United Kingdom (therefore not requiring Scotland and Ireland, even though there is a high interest). For your second example, either a civil war wouldn't be neccessary, or I'll find other reasons to start a civil war should that not work. Most likely it'll be over a slave-abusing civic. But if something happens, the game will still continue, even if it can't keep following history.

@Moopoo- Well, I do plan on including realism traits, to make civs as strong or weak as they would be in real life, or as expansive or tight as they would be in real life. So I'll probably have traits like: Passive, Strong, Imperial, Megasuperimperial, centered, expansive, superexpansive (obviously I have not thought of names for them but hopefully despite that you get the picture)

I do not yet know what I will do with normal traits.

As for dynamic traits, if I can borrow technology from someone and modify it, it's a possibility. But know that I am by no means a coder, and therefore would not be able to do any heavy coding.

@LordJoakim- what do you mean by the question? If you mean what civs will use dynamic names, then you can check the first page civs list, where civs that will use a name change will have either a slash (/) or a double slash (//) (I don't remember which, but you'll find out if you read the legend). Just realize that almost no time has gone into this, so it is by no means complete or correct. Still, if you know of anything that should be changed, notifying me will make it an easier task.

@Grishnash- depends on whether or not Europeans manage to establish a settlement or two. Obviously raising a colony such as America would require a couple settlements, so if it gets one or two in a key area, I'll probably have them raise from those. If the natives manage to prevent solid settlement, then there will be no way they can, and America's birth will just have to wait I guess. But the mod should be balanced enough to make this possible.

@JD- as much of a nazi hater as I am, I do agree that people should be able to play Hitler and take part in that integral piece of history. I still have to rule out whether it'll be only Hitler, or whether I will start a new empire for Hitler so that I can assign Frederick or Bismarck to the colonial German empire.

I hope to have all (standard, ie civs already included in RFC) settler maps done within 2 weeks.

Does anyone know if anyone has yet managed to make a different map compatible with RFC?

Kevin

That mod looks very interesting!!!

Just understood your civ renaming system xD I asked about renaming civs, because of... Well, many mods rename Native America to Sioux and the HRE to Austria, as well as Vikings to Scandinavian Empire.

@joakim: yeah, there would be no need for renaming, because I will have all civs I feel should be represented, represented.

I have updated my first page to include a list of religions that will be included. Feel free to debate it. Also, if anyone knows some religious civics I will post them too (but I won't get to actually work on them until much later).

Kevin

If i ever manage to code the trait system, I'll be sure to let you know

About the religions. Although i didn't recognize many, I cringed at seeing scientology there. I hope you looked at the influence it's had over the course of world history, rather than women's magazines in the last couple of years :S

Quick question Kevin: you mentioned in the first post about the mod extending into the future. How far are you thinking here?

I'm doing some brainstorming on the matter of techs and buildings atm and as I get closer to the present-day and near future I'm wondering when I should stop

moopoo said:

About the religions. Although i didn't recognize many, I cringed at seeing scientology there. I hope you looked at the influence it's had over the course of world history, rather than women's magazines in the last couple of years :S

Click to expand...

Same here. Technically it's not actually a religion, but regardless its impact on world history is absolutely minimal, and it's not practiced by very many people, unless you live in Hollywood. I think there are probably more deserving modern faiths which could take its place.