New City States

Menzies said:

Where did you get the city state colour thing from?

Do you have a list of City States by colour?

Do you think they've just added an extra Militaristic City State for no reason?

Click to expand...

Being replaced is not the only reason to add city states.

They could quite easily be unhappy with the balance of city state types in game and a simple way to address that is to change the quantities.

There are a lot of ifs and buts in this thread unless i'm gravely mistaken.

True_Candyman said:

Being replaced is not the only reason to add city states.

They could quite easily be unhappy with the balance of city state types in game and a simple way to address that is to change the quantities.

There are a lot of ifs and buts in this thread unless i'm gravely mistaken.

Click to expand...

They haven't "rebalanced" them like that before, the number seems to have been specifically chosen. Also consider that so far it fits what you'd expect perfectly in terms of new city states to replace ones that we know had to have been replaced and it seems as though the logic is on the right track.

I guess we really need some more information before we can be certain either way. Hopefully we'll get some new screenshots to analyse soon, though seeing as we had such a big drop of new stuff on Friday I'd be kind of surprised if we got a lot this coming week...

Okay, so I've got a list of the city states and colours now. This will be an interesting test.

Ur - Maritime - Light Purple

Replaced:

Lisbon - Maritime - Light Purple

______________________________________________

Panama City - Maritime - Light Yellow

Replaced:

Rio de Jineiro - Maritime - Light Yellow

______________________________________________


Bratislava - Cultured - White

Replaced:

Warsaw - Cultured - White

______________________________________________

So these all seem happy and good. Here's the fun part. Sofia's colour is new to the Militaristic City States. This does actually suggest that they've just added Sofia for whatever reason. Maybe they've change the colours? I don't know, but Sofia definitely seems to be a different colour to all the other militaristic city states so far, and is same colour as Bucharest.

There is one more to compare though... Who's going to love this?!

______________________________________________

Riga - Maritime - Middle Cyan

Replaced:

Ragusa - Maritime - Middle Cyan

______________________________________________

That... that was unexpected. It is however consistent. It also opens up the door to there not only being new city states that don't replace anything. Instead however, it means we can check against colour and type, as they appear to remain consistent (I've checked for a number of old city states and they line up with the Gods & Kings colours).

Very interesting (that last bit is an argument, albeit a weak one, for Venice). Are all colors unique or do they overlap when of different types?

I wonder if Bucharest changed city type? That's at least one random theory I'm throwing out. Romania strikes me as unlikely, so I'm trying to consider all possibilities.

I get a funny feeling that Ragusa is going to be included on Italy's city list, and the fact that the city state Ragusa is a different Ragusa isn't going to stop them removing it anyhow for simplicity.

It is possible that Riga has the same colour as Riga in the ITR scenario from G&K.

But Italy would be quite honestly a welcoe change as long as it used a UA that would help with Great Works (but doesn't France do that already?)

Well, Dubrovnik was owned by Venice, which means it's technically legitimate in either a Venetian or an Italian civilization. Ragusa, the Italian city, wasn't really important enough to necessitate removing the city-state of Ragusa/Dubrovnik (hell, if they were concerned, they could have renamed Ragusa to Dubrovnik).

TheKingOfBigOz said:

Sofia isn't replacing anything, there's no pastel-green city state that is militaristic.

Click to expand...

Belgrade is currently the only Light Green (militaristic) City State. As Belgrade is confirmed to be still in, this means that either a) they don't follow the original colour scheme, or b) they are indeed adding new city states that don't replace anything. Either way, it makes guessing included civs just based on the colour of city states very dubious bussiness. And we have now a strong indication that Marocco might be in, which contradicts with the predictions done in this thread, so I wouldn't get too carried away ...

Louis XXIV said:

Very interesting (that last bit is an argument, albeit a weak one, for Venice). Are all colors unique or do they overlap when of different types?

Click to expand...

City-State colors are not unique. I've seen two city-states of exactly the same color (purple) right next to each other and fighting (and yeah, it was confusing).

Louis XXIV said:

Very interesting (that last bit is an argument, albeit a weak one, for Venice). Are all colors unique or do they overlap when of different types?

I wonder if Bucharest changed city type? That's at least one random theory I'm throwing out. Romania strikes me as unlikely, so I'm trying to consider all possibilities.

Click to expand...

The colours repeat, I'll list them:

MINOR_WHITE
Warsaw - Cultured
Cahokia - Mercantile
Jerusalem - Religious

MINOR_GRAY
Budapest - Militaristic
Jakarta - Maritime
Zurich - Mercantile

MINOR_MIDDLE_BLUE
Geneva - Religious
Sydney - Maritime

MINOR_CYAN
Venice - Maritime
Florence - Cultured
La Venta - Religious

MINOR_MIDDLE_CYAN
Genoa - Mercantile
Ragusa - Maritime

MINOR_BLUE
Quebec City - Maritime
Hong Kong - Mercantile
Prague - Culture

MINOR_LIGHT_GREEN
Bucharest - Cultured
Lhasa - Religious
Manila - Maritime

MINOR_GREEN
Belgrade - Militaristic
Tyre - Mercantile
Mombasa - Maritime

MINOR_LIGHT_BLUE
Brussels - Cultured
Zanzibar - Mercantile

MINOR_PURPLE
Monaco - Cultured
Antwerp - Mercantile
Lisbon - Maritime

MINOR_PEACH
Marrakech - Mercantile
Yerevan - Cultured

MINOR_LIGHT_ORANGE
Milan - Cultured
Almaty - Militaristic
Cape Town - Maritime

MINOR_MIDDLE_PURPLE
Kathmandu - Cultured
Sidon - Militaristic

MINOR_LIGHT_PURPLE
Hanoi - Militaristic
Colombo - Mercantile
Wittenberg - Religious

MINOR_LIGHT_YELLOW
Rio de Janeiro - Maritime
Vatican City - Religious
Singapore - Mercantile

MINOR_YELLOW
Kuala Lumpur - Cultured
Valletta - Militaristic



An interesting insight into the mindset potentially of those who wrote the XMLs: They are called 'Minor Civilizations' and not 'City States' in here.

kaspergm said:

Belgrade is currently the only Light Green (militaristic) City State. As Belgrade is confirmed to be still in, this means that either a) they don't follow the original colour scheme, or b) they are indeed adding new city states that don't replace anything. Either way, it makes guessing included civs just based on the colour of city states very dubious bussiness. And we have now a strong indication that Marocco might be in, which contradicts with the predictions done in this thread, so I wouldn't get too carried away ...

Click to expand...

Belgrade is actually MINOR_GREEN, which is darker than MINOR_LIGHT_GREEN (yes, I've spent time to check them against eachother). They are different colours, and yes, no two City States of the same type share a colour. Sofia is a new beast all together.

The predictions in this thread to do with Sofia are put bluntly, wrong. It was based on the idea that it would be one to one, this suggests something else is happening. Apart from this it seems self consistent otherwise, none of the other colours are different so far, and I've checked a few of them (with the list there you can check yourselves).

I'd also point out that Ur and Lisbon should be written as "purple" not "light purple". Constantly seeing the word 'minor' was screwing with my head a bit.

Menzies said:

An interesting insight into the mindset potentially of those who wrote the XMLs: They are called 'Minor Civilizations' and not 'City States' in here.

Click to expand...

I have noticed the devs referring to "major civilizations."

AriochIV said:

I have noticed the devs referring to "major civilizations."

Click to expand...

Not only the Devs, even. It's in the game.

Also, Minor Civilizations were the name of the "City-states" in Galactic Civilizations II (Planet-Sates? ), so I didn't even get bothered by it when I saw it.

Oh well, it seems reasonable to think Ragusa has been replaced by Riga. It offers some interesting city states to look out for replacements of:

Maritime, Grey - Jakarta - Indonesia
Mercantile, Peach - Marrakech - Morocco
Mercantile, Darker Cyan - Genoa - Italy
Culture, Cyan - Florence, Italy
Maritime, Cyan - Venice, Italy
Cultured, Light Orange - Milan - Italy

Menzies said:

The predictions in this thread to do with Sofia are put bluntly, wrong.

Click to expand...

Maybe yours were.

Assertions are not your friend menzies! I thought you learned this with your predictions of the announcement!

You seem to be assuming that the number of city-states must remain constant, and therefore any new city-state must replace a previous one. I don't see any basis for that assumption.

Menzies said:

Belgrade is actually MINOR_GREEN, which is darker than MINOR_DARK_GREEN (yes, I've spent time to check them against eachother).

Click to expand...

Right, I probably just made the search for "green". And yes, the colours are very different, Green is like this whereas Light Green is like this.

AriochIV said:

You seem to be assuming that the number of city-states must remain constant, and therefore any new city-state must replace a previous one. I don't see any basis for that assumption.

Click to expand...

Quebec City replaced Olso, retained the colour
Sydney replaced Copenhagen, retained the colour
Kathamandu replaced Seoul, retained the colour.

Well, if this holds, and it seems to from what we've seen at least, then I'd pretty much pencil Italy (or Venice) in as it's the only reason I could see the city state Ragusa being removed.

As for not removing the Croatian Ragusa for the Italian one; they already mixed them up in the initial release of vanilla, I don't think it'd bother them to remove it now to put the Italian Ragusa on Italy's city list (or they could have mixed them up again).

The colours are not only consistent with what we're seen with replacements for former City States, but they are also consistent for the ones which are unchanged as well. It seems that keeping an eye on colour and type could give us the indentity of the city states as they come up. That said, with the potential 'leak' of Morocco this with Ragusa, we may only have two Civilizations left to figure out... I won't be satisfied with Italy being in until I've seen at least 2 or 3 of the city states replaced though.