Should I go Tradition or Liberty?

U

Udan mas

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
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Hi, im looking for a bit of help in my current game as Korea (Imortal, Epic, small continents) I usually go tradition when playing a science civ but just looking at my spawn i can see a large area to fill with only one other neighbour (Egypt)

Its hard to see from the picture but there is the Uluru to the West and Mt Kialash to the East.

So do you think I should stick with tradition or go Liberty and expand to my continent

PS: I haven't been on the forums for a while so make sure i have not left anything out!:)
 

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Tradition, definitely. It's going to be an awesome cap once you get lighthouse/fishing boats/hopefully the pantheon with +1 prod from fishing boats.

You want tall when you're ... well, almost anyone, but especially Korea, given the +2 per specialist bonus.

Not sure where city #2 should go, though ... it's a big continent but you don't have a lot of great dirt/ocean (except around your cap). Curious whether there's anything to the peninsula to the south.

I guess you kind of have to waddle towards Poop Rock, though, but it'd be a shame if a cargo route didn't make it there.
 
budweiser said:
Kill him quick before you meet anyone else.
Click to expand...

That might not be so easy with Thebes being on a peninsula like that. But a few triremes could help.

If you decide to take out Ramses I'd go Liberty as there's very nice resource diversity for quite a few cities.

If you decide to leave Ramses alone and make him your BFF, then I'd go Tradition as usual.

What a starting spot! I play small continents a lot lately, and never get 6 workable sea resources in my cap. I hope that fishing boat pantheon is still there for you.

.. neilkaz ..
 
Noticed you're not getting a fishing boats to that fish southeast of you, not without a city planted to the east.

A bit of a shame that you didn't settle one spot to the south, it'd make your life easier for the long game.
 
Hi everyone, Thanks for the fast replies!

I think I am going to go for tradition to maximise growth in my cities, my capital should have a large population with all of those fish and whales.

I think I may be friendly with Egypt for a while, but if he settles to near me it may lead to war. If im lucky there might be another continet North of Thebes that he will expand to, but is very unlikely. I think that once i get my Turtle ships I will attack him but I will see how it goes.

As for my second City, I was thinking of going 2 tiles East of the barbarian camp North of my capital next the silver and river. this would block him off from settling to the west peninsular and secure me a load of silver. :king:

I will continue the game tonight and update the game on this thread. Feel free to give me other advise for this game as it is really helpful. :)
 
Just played a bit more of the game, and i need help with another decision.

As you can see, I forward settled on Egypt fast to block him off, and have now started to head towards philosophy to get National College.

I dont know whether to settle my next city in the east on the tile next to the mountain to create a canal or go west to get the other wonder before Egypt or England take it.

Some help would be greatly appreciated as these forums really help me try to become a better player :)
 

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you do not need to kill, but it is very easy to block him on one city and have rest for yourself.
 
Udan, I would not have settled there, and I would not spend my turn building walls.

You have a coastal city -- settling another coastal city so you can do cargo routes would be the best idea. Egypt is not traditionally a warlike Civ in my experience, so I would not worry too much about him spamming you. Especially when you should have no problem settling 3-4 cities even if he does.
 
I'm personally a fan of going both. Policy order when I want a fast but tall start is usually

Tradition opener -> Liberty opener -> Republic (Liberty) -> Collective Rule (Liberty) -> then go back and finish up tradition tree.

Most of the time I'll finish the Tradition tree (if I get the Great Oracle free SP) just in time to unlock Rationalism.

The Tradition + Liberty opener gives great culture to start off with, and adding Republic + Collective Rule allows you to punch out 3 additional cities very rapidly around T50.

Disadvantages - you'll get the free aquaducts significantly later, as well as the capitol pro-growth and happiness policies - about 30 turns later than otherwise. On the other hand, collective rule will save you ~20 turns of no-growth settler building (or 500g per buy) and the combination of liberty and republic will get those new cities off the ground significantly faster, as well as providing a small additional boost to your capitol early with both hammers and culture.
 
Without a massive cultural boost from somewhere, I find it extremely difficult to fill out both Liberty and Tradition pre-Renaissance, so I don't know that I'd do that.

There is nothing about this map other than its openness that suggests you should go wide. There's just not a lot of good dirt out there. I mean, do whatever is the most fun for you, but with Korea especially you would rather have 3 cities with all the specialist slots filled out than 8 cities with almost no specialist slots filled out. Coastal cities/cargo ships are a good option here. I think my 2nd city would be two spots south/southwest of Uluru, and I'd buy the mountain. Not a great spot but you get all the tasty faith and a cargo route will take care of some of your food issues.

EDIT: Meh, maybe not. It really is a foodless spot. Probably have to settle for the spot on the river next to the cotton or silk or whatever it is. To the N/NW.
 
Udan mas said:
Hi, im looking for a bit of help in my current game as Korea (Imortal, Epic, small continents) I usually go tradition when playing a science civ but just looking at my spawn i can see a large area to fill with only one other neighbour (Egypt)

Its hard to see from the picture but there is the Uluru to the West and Mt Kialash to the East.

So do you think I should stick with tradition or go Liberty and expand to my continent

PS: I haven't been on the forums for a while so make sure i have not left anything out!:)
Click to expand...

Liberty is for self founding 6+ cities.
Tradition is for self founding 4 or less cities.

Conquering AIs cities and keeping them (either as puppets or annexed) actually falls into the Tradition side with Monarchy providing a much larger happiness bonus.
But if you're planning on a really early war with Egypt to raze any other city they found to the ground, only keeping their capital and the refounding all their cities in better locations, that goes back to Liberty for the settler production bonus.
 
joncnunn said:
Liberty is for self founding 6+ cities.
Tradition is for self founding 4 or less cities.

Conquering AIs cities and keeping them (either as puppets or annexed) actually falls into the Tradition side with Monarchy providing a much larger happiness bonus.
But if you're planning on a really early war with Egypt to raze any other city they found to the ground, only keeping their capital and the refounding all their cities in better locations, that goes back to Liberty for the settler production bonus.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with going tradition and founding 5 or 6 cities actually.
Given the fact, that there are too few rivers on this island, the inland cities are not gonna grow huge anyway so ...
 
dragonxxx said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going tradition and founding 5 or 6 cities actually.
Given the fact, that there are too few rivers on this island, the inland cities are not gonna grow huge anyway so ...
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On Immortal, you are not founding 5-6 cities early on without severe happiness problems. Even 4 can be a challenge.

OP's capital is quite rocking and is at least twice as good resource-wise as any other spot we see on the map. Spending early turns building fishing boats/a lighthouse to buff it up to uber-capness seems wiser to me than spending a lot of time building settlers and workers and sending them to build cities on lousy dirt.
 
TheGrumpyBuddha said:
On Immortal, you are not founding 5-6 cities early on without severe happiness problems. Even 4 can be a challenge.

OP's capital is quite rocking and is at least twice as good resource-wise as any other spot we see on the map. Spending early turns building fishing boats/a lighthouse to buff it up to uber-capness seems wiser to me than spending a lot of time building settlers and workers and sending them to build cities on lousy dirt.
Click to expand...

Noone said you have to do it early, but you can go 4 city NC and then make 1-2 more especially if you manage to block Egypt. There are enough good spots for 6 cities if you wish to make that many.
 
dragonxxx said:
Noone said you have to do it early, but you can go 4 city NC and then make 1-2 more especially if you manage to block Egypt. There are enough good spots for 6 cities if you wish to make that many.
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4 City NC is extremely late to NC if this is Tradition start, that many self founded cities before NC works better for Liberty as does that total number of self founded cities early.
 
joncnunn said:
4 City NC is extremely late to NC if this is Tradition start, that many self founded cities before NC works better for Liberty as does that total number of self founded cities early.
Click to expand...

Extremely late? You still get it around T90 ...
 
dragonxxx said:
Extremely late? You still get it around T90 ...
Click to expand...

That's late lol, seriously though I find that map conditions and you luxuries dictate how many cities prior to NC. If I have marble and furs in my capital its probably going to be a 4 City NC.
 
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