when to fertilizar/chem in SV?

Esperr

Esperr

King
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
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So when going for a typical science win, and beelining for the major science techs when is a good time to research fert/chem on the path? Is it before or after sci method? Or at another time completely. I ussually do it right after sci method but I somehow feel that is not optimal and was looking for other players opinions on the matter. Particularly players in the "sub 200" club.
 
Esperr said:
So when going for a typical science win, and beelining for the major science techs when is a good time to research fert/chem on the path? Is it before or after sci method? Or at another time completely. I ussually do it right after sci method but I somehow feel that is not optimal and was looking for other players opinions on the matter. Particularly players in the "sub 200" club.
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I'd like to know the answer to this question as well. The answer probably requires math and is situation-specific -- will the growth you get by diverting to take Fertilizer make up for the 4-5 turns you spend researching it?

I suspect that you will generally open Plastics a little later if you take the Fertilizer detour, even if your cities aren't mostly on rivers ... but not necessarily. It may be that you get +6 food or somesuch per city if you open Fertilizer, and so the growth happens fast enough to generate enough science to make up for it. (Seems like a stretch, though.)
 
I ask because if you beeline to sci meth then you wont have fertilizer or anything leading up that line done either meaning that plastics will be delayed by many turns.
 
Esperr said:
I ask because if you beeline to sci meth then you wont have fertilizer or anything leading up that line done either meaning that plastics will be delayed by many turns.
Click to expand...

You need Chemistry for Plastics, but not Fertilizer.

If you go Chemistry/Fertilizer before Sci Method then you have a lot more turns of bumped growth, but then you are waiting 8+ turns, probably more, before opening Sci Method, which is definitely going to cost you science.

I have personally beelined to Fertilizer in situations where I had nobody on a river, did this before going for Sci Method, but I don't think it was optimal for a pure SV. On the other hand, in that specific situation, I doubt it hurt me much.
 
Perhaps the answer depends upon your ability to rushbuy Research Labs? I'm sure though that SUb 200 club is going to say dont divert
 
After I've researched Scientific Theory and I have a GS to burn I just select Fertilizer and bulb 8 turns later. If not it's straight onto Plastic where I hope I Generate a GS. In saying that if you are going for a SV your science should be pretty high so detouring to Fertilizer isn't that much of a detour.
 
I usually bust past Sci Method to Radio to grab Order free tenets, back track to Industrialization to look for coal and set up Factories, then start on the lower tree and decide how my cash will be and when GS spawns are gonna hit if I run towards Plastics now (I try to time Oxford for free Plastics). Often I need more production and food, so I'll go to Fertilizer, if I'm still really underdeveloped I'll run to Railroad (and build Neuschwanstein!) then go to Plastics. Optimal play is Plastics ASAP.
 
phillipwyllie said:
After I've researched Scientific Theory and I have a GS to burn I just select Fertilizer and bulb 8 turns later. If not it's straight onto Plastic where I hope I Generate a GS. In saying that if you are going for a SV your science should be pretty high so detouring to Fertilizer isn't that much of a detour.
Click to expand...

This would be really bad, You would want to save the scientist until AFTER you have labs to reap its maximum benefit when burned.
 
Fertilizer is situational, get it after ST only if you really need it. You usually never want it before ST since it's a big detour to get. Maybe if you have like the worst terrain possible with 0 fresh water... maybe.

Chemistry is required for plastics so no problems there. Fertilizer before plastics is okay to do if it will increase your food by a lot. Use that time to hoard more gold to rush buy those labs in that case.
 
I am generally in favor of the fertilizer detour in situations where your cities are undersized due to poor irrigation (generally lack of rivers).
 
Sometimes you just have to almost beeline fertilizer. Imm/Diety The situation is very map and goal dependent.
 
You don't need chemistry for Plastics. After gunpowder it's metallurgy then rifling, not chemistry.

How many foods will you earn on Chemistry/Fertilizer ? Do you plan to rush-buy labs ? It around 12 to 14 to research Chemistry/Fertilizer.
With Order, I skip them many times. If I'm low in hammers, I spend some turns to have Chemistry but nearly never Fertilizer. With Liberty, I research them before Plastics and go to Penicilin before sats.

To be certain, you need maths. Try without. You'll see. ;)
 
I think it is better to go for both chemistry and fertilizer first then go for plastics so that once you get it you have more population to take advantage of the labs and more hammers to build them quicker.
 
In my latest (and probably only ever) science game, I took the Deity Challenge with the Inca and realised pretty early that it was a bad map for domination. So I decided to be peaceful. When Pedro started wonder-spamming I didn't want to go for the chore of another aborted culture victory, so I went all ahead for science.

In that game, I went Fertilizer first before Sci Theory and it seemed to propel me forward. But I was teching only a few turns per discovery then anyway. I think that the secret is to take the tech lead during renaissance or industrial and just not take your foot of the gas.
 
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