Dusted off Japan: Far More Useful in G&K

ahawk

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I just finished a game with Japan where the UA helped significantly more than it used to.

In the old vanilla game, it was fairly rare that the AI concentrated their fire to take down single units, and often you could charge in and take a city without siege units (at least at Emperor on down). Back then, charge in, attack the city, use promotions to heal, win the battle with almost no casualites.

Now, cities have more HP, gain even more from walls, and the AI seems to concentrate fire better (though sometimes it'll concentrate it on my wounded scout rather than my trebuchet). This makes it difficulty to even get a unit next to a city, and wounded units aren't normally too great at attacking cities.

In comes Japan. The civ that everyone loved to hate in vanilla, myself included, is in the new era of G&K and suddenly a lot more useful. The Samurai has always been great, but the UA is more important than ever, especially since units last longer. Units last longer, cities are tougher to take, and Japan is the one civ where units always do regular damage even when wounded -- and the way things are going for most people, units are getting far more damaged in attempts to take cities.

To recap:

Japan is a fair amount more useful because attacking cities is much more likely to get your units damaged before they are in range of the target.
 
Japan was actually the first Civ I thought of when I saw the new combat system. But I'm having too much fun figuring out the new ones to go back and mess with Japan just yet. ;)
 
i've yet to use japan but i can say ive tried going to war with them 3 times and each time it went poorly. Japans UA makes any fight with them turn into a meat grinder.
 
On the other hand, I'm experiencing not too much loss of damage done by wounded units.
 
Agree that the damage loss for wounded units isn't huge, but it still exists. I seem to see it more with ranged units, but that may just be my imagination. In my first G&K game Japan had one city left (AI took the other) and it took more units than I would have thought to take it down.
 
Agree that the damage loss for wounded units isn't huge, but it still exists. I seem to see it more with ranged units, but that may just be my imagination. In my first G&K game Japan had one city left (AI took the other) and it took more units than I would have thought to take it down.

It's this. Japan's bonus isn't HUGE, but it's there. And over the course of time, they'll win a stalemate. But why would you let it go to that? Come at them with an overwhelming force like you would any Civ's units.

As Japan, though, I do have to say, Bushido is useful when taking cities. If your options are "Unit suicide attacks city" or "unit dies by city bombardment", it can make your choice easy. Helped me take out an Iroquois capital with the Great Wall. Almost all of my Samurai were in the red at the end.
 
It's this. Japan's bonus isn't HUGE, but it's there. And over the course of time, they'll win a stalemate. But why would you let it go to that? Come at them with an overwhelming force like you would any Civ's units.

As Japan, though, I do have to say, Bushido is useful when taking cities. If your options are "Unit suicide attacks city" or "unit dies by city bombardment", it can make your choice easy. Helped me take out an Iroquois capital with the Great Wall. Almost all of my Samurai were in the red at the end.

I usually leave the wounded unit the AI is attacking in range of the city bombard, even if it means that unit dies. If you move the unit away/suicide attack the city then the AI will reprioritize the target and probably start hitting your seige units. Wounded units that the city bombard isn't targetting (maybe some ranged sea units) will either escape or attack the city.
 
I never got around to playing Japan pre-G&K... with the combat changes I wonder if you can still get the Kamikaze achievement (kill a unit with an attacking unit with only 1 hp remaining - still reads that way in Steam). If not, I may have to alter the combat system back to the old style long enough to pull that off with Japan.
 
I never got around to playing Japan pre-G&K... with the combat changes I wonder if you can still get the Kamikaze achievement (kill a unit with an attacking unit with only 1 hp remaining - still reads that way in Steam). If not, I may have to alter the combat system back to the old style long enough to pull that off with Japan.

Oh, man. If that's still the Steam achievement, that will be next to impossible.
 
I actually liked Japan a bit pre G&K...

It made for faster battles as you didn't need to fall back to heal in many cases. Have roughly the same number of units facing off and you're wounded and you could still attack in full force rather than fall back in order to avoid loosing units.

But yeah it is quite nice now.
 
I actually liked Japan a bit pre G&K...

It made for faster battles as you didn't need to fall back to heal in many cases. Have roughly the same number of units facing off and you're wounded and you could still attack in full force rather than fall back in order to avoid loosing units.

But yeah it is quite nice now.

You're only slightly less likely to lose the unit though, since they can the fewer hits than a full-HP unit despite having Bushido. Generally, they'll just do more in the way out.
 
You're only slightly less likely to lose the unit though, since they can the fewer hits than a full-HP unit despite having Bushido. Generally, they'll just do more in the way out.

I'm thinking more along the lines of an even battle or one you're just about to turn into a breakthrough or massive advantage.

So you've got the units to win, and if they were all healthy they'd likely win in that turn (or at least weaken the enemy so much that they're doomed). Yet your units are damaged but with Japan it doesn't matter as you can hit with full force and you can still throw them down and clean up the whole battle.

I found that really common and handy due to the unit unit limits in Civ V. More of a speed thing than much else but quite handy.
 
In more G&K gameplays than I want to think about, I can remember being reduced to exactly 1 HP exactly once.

/Also got the achievement playing vanilla. :cool:

Yeah, I'm kinda hoping Steam will credit it for 10 HP or less (still rather difficult to get until you out-tech an opponent severely - or abuse barbs).

If not, I'll just change the HP/damage scale in the core xml back to old-style... heck, I may just change it to where all units have 1 hp just to complete the damned thing if I don't get it normally in the course of a game.
 
You're only slightly less likely to lose the unit though, since they can the fewer hits than a full-HP unit despite having Bushido. Generally, they'll just do more in the way out.

The biggest advantage is in swarming a city with melee units & little or no ranged support. Even with the AI doing a better job defending now, figure you bring 8, lose 1 on the way in, hit with 4 & another 3 in reserve, lose 1 more, and then hit with 4-6 still doing full damage on the next turn. Against a city located on open terrain it's almost unstoppable.
 
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