Korean War Revisited

CurtSibling · Oct 9, 2013

A fresh start with a new map, and new attitude might be in order.
I feel there is too much detail, too many units and not a focus on the correct areas.
I would make this more of simplified deal, and focus on unit balance and the flow of
events like Chinese interventions or nuke threats, etc...

Another solution to the over-heavy NK power is to make certain units unbuildable
for the commies. One the first wave units are gone, it could be a case of semi-good
NK defence units versus an approaching Allied power fighting up the map...

Just my tuppence worth...

McMonkey · Oct 9, 2013

I strongly disagree about the need for a new map. The current one is a good scale with good detail and the initial North Korean attack works perfectly.I would recommend focusing on the unit stats and the events, especially the Chinese intervention. To start over again with a new map is a massive task and an unnecessary one. Patine has the foundations for an excellent scenario here and just needs to concentrate on play-testing and getting the stats and events running smoothly.

McMonkey · Oct 9, 2013

One way to go about the Chinese intervention is to playtest a few times to work out the average date when the player can be near the Chinese border and then have the Chinese events date based. I think it is too complex and too open to players deciding when to trigger the events to have them triggered by a certain unit destruction or city capture.

The Chinese units should have excellent mobility, especially their Infantry over rough terrain. Use move to events to keep them focused on their move south. The Chinese should be given reinforcements when they capture a city to keep their offensive rolling on.

One other thing I would recommend is adding some more hilly terrain in flat areas, especially around Pusan, so that the UN troops can form a defensive line.

Patine · Oct 9, 2013

Sorry I didn't respond right away. I was having internet problems. I don't plan to restart with a new map; the amount of work would be monstrous! I agree with your suggestions for the Chinese intervention McMonkey; at least I'll give them a try. I already have it so only infantry (and only SK infantry for the UN) is actually buildable by the various powers (and engineers by the UN only). Should I allow the North Koreans to build tanks and planes, or no? I also plan to place some NK units 'sitting around' up north so the North Korean fighting doesn't peter off entirely once you get out of South Korea. Hills in the south edges may be good too. This is what I have for now.

Strelok22 · Nov 3, 2013

If you give NK the power to build tanks and planes they will most likely focus on them and they will not produce the amount of infantry they do right now. Therefore I suggest a simple event that gives them a tank and a plane every X turns.

Patine · Nov 15, 2013

Strelok22 said:
If you give NK the power to build tanks and planes they will most likely focus on them and they will not produce the amount of infantry they do right now. Therefore I suggest a simple event that gives them a tank and a plane every X turns.

Sorry about the delayed response. I think your suggestion actually has the seed of a good idea. I just have to figure out how to fine tune it. Should I spawn the tank and plane in Pyongyang, or further south, do you think?

Patine · Apr 16, 2014

A few updates from this project. Chinese intervention will indeed be triggered at the latest by a specific date event, but can be triggered earlier if a Border Post unit of the Chinese Border (which completely surround Chinese territory on the map, you may recall) is destroyed by the UN. I'm also making the Nuclear Release tech harder to get by tweaking with the tech paraigm, and even then, the UN player will only get a few Atomic Bombers and won't be able to build more in the course of the scenario. And, I'm considering making the Soviet civ an inviolable block of land in the corner with no chance of activating, but I'm not entirely sure they'd remain directly uninvolved if the UN got a nuclear release. However, I may make that the only condition by which they get involved, I'm not sure. I also plan to ramp up most infantry unit's attack capabilities, as this war, other than being the first where jet fighters fought each other in significant numbers of engagements, was largely an infantry war; the terrain of the peninsula made armoured "blitzkrieg" style warfare less effective.

Patine · Dec 26, 2014

Okay, I think I almost have this nailed, and I've already decided my next project (a really obscure conflict, like many that awesome Civ2 scenarios have been based around). I just need to fine tune the Chinese counteroffensive so it's AT LEAST as frightening as the initial North Korean one, and one more issue... the Soviets in the upper Northeast corner. I've considered deleting them, as in most cases, they're direct involvement would no doubt escalate into a military crossing across the Inter-German Border, possibly spreading into the Aegean, Scandinavian, and Middle Eastern theatres, naval engagements on the high seas, and, possibly eventually, and atomic war to some degree or other (I'm not sure if the arsenals in '50's could have destroyed the world like they could have in the '70's or '80's, but great damage could have still have been done).

The problem is, I don't see Stalin standing by idly if the US followed McArthur's plan and used multiple atomic bombs on China, then a staunch Soviet ally. And, I allowed an atomic option via research in the scenario.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this issue, which I'm hoping is the last hang-up decision in this scenario's development?

Metro Polis · Dec 27, 2014

Remember you can create a foreign unit in another player's town? I suggest you design a Soviet unit (some kind of military advisor) with a range of zero inside important Chinese cities. If these are stripped of the Chinese defensive units the left Soviet unit will defend the Chinese city. If it gets destroyed, the Soviets will surely get mad and that means war.

For the Soviets staying calm in Europe I suggest you define an impassable terrain or a unit that can't be tackled because of supreme defensive power (called 'Iron Curtain') along the border. That means the Russians can attack Europe only by sea or air. If you reduce their forces here (like a sea transporter that can't carry but a few units, short-range planes, only tactical atom bombs aka powerful missiles), Europe should be save.

Patine · Feb 21, 2015

Okay, if TheNamelessOne can fulfill my request of detaching the alpine unit movement multiplier from the base road movement multiplier like he already has the river movement multiplier (and he responded it likely won't be a problem), then the alpine Chinese infantry I have planned for the Chinese counter-offensive will be truly terrifying to behold!

McMonkey · Feb 23, 2015

That's a good idea. I could make good use of that feature too.

Patine · Mar 2, 2015

After much bellyaching and deliberation, I've decided, unless I get a better brainwave, just to nix both the nuclear option and the Soviet player. I know MacArthur did plead passionately for nuking China into the Stone Age, but frankly, I've come to feel it's a distraction from what really matters in the scenario, and I can't find a realistic way to have a contained and purely regional Soviet response to the US nuking China.

McMonkey · Mar 3, 2015

Sounds like a reasonable solution. No need to overcomplicate things. The real fun will be fighting the conventional war anyway.

Patine · Mar 4, 2015

Okay, I did some cleaning up of the units and rules files, but, before I tackle editing and expanding the events file and things in the actual scenario itself, I need one final unit to top things off. I have the 'standard' Chinese Infantry, which is basically a garrison and otherwise defensive unit, and I'm re-tooling the 'Chinese Volunteers' as a perimeter and roaming unit that follows the advance and occupies cities and positions as they're captured (not sure a good term to re-name them to), but I also want a really fearsome Chinese Infantry unit, preferably with bayonet forward and a fierce pose for the nasty wave infantry that were so infamous in the war. This is the last foreseeable unit needed for this scenario. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help with this!

Patine · Mar 5, 2015

Updating my request here, I just happened to noticed my current unit used for the Chinese defensive infantry is, strangely, actually perfect for how I envision the wave infantry. So, if I may, I'd just to change my request to a new more defensive-looking Chinese infantry. Again, thanks in advance if anyone takes this up!

McMonkey · Mar 6, 2015

I was looking at some of Fairlines latest Russian Infantry and I think with a little tweaking (new hats etc...) they would be perfect for the Korean War era Chinese, especially the guys in the padded suits! I will have a look at some pictures of various Chinese Infantry and try and put something together. I'm no artist but I'm pretty good at copy/pasting elements together.

Patine · Mar 6, 2015

That would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

McMonkey · Mar 6, 2015

Here's my first bash at some Chinese in winter clothing. They are just Fairline's WWII Russians in padded gear and fir boots with a combined Japanese hat with Cold War Bulgarian fur hat. With a bit of cut & paste I'm pretty sure you could come up with some authentic and scary looking Chinese Infantry. I'll see what else I can cobble together, unless someone a bit more gifted wants to step in.

Patine · Mar 6, 2015

Those look awesome (certainly better than I could do)! I'll see what I can do with them. Thanks, greatly!

Patine · Mar 8, 2015

Since techumseh and McMonkey have already done so, I might as well also realease my current units file here. Although many of the units are the same or similar as before, there's a few different ones (like the Chinese wave infantry that McMonkey cobbled together, or the unattackable decorative Soviet cities to replace actual ones), but this is how they currently pan out.

Korean War Revisited

ENEMY ACE™

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Warlord

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